Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)

#301 Post by knives » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:53 pm

Yeah, I had to clear up that sentence because what I was saying was very muddled. In short, though I disagree with this point, one could reasonably argue the reason why Brian's point about the social movement in the film doesn't succeed is that these people never actually meet Fleck or see his deeds which is a different relationship than that of the woman of the 'friend'.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)

#302 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:32 pm

Yeah I don’t think it’s necessarily successful but the effort seems to be there, though I think I’ve been viewing the strengths or my own interest in this film through a different lens perhaps, less in a reciprocal relationship with actual reality of icon worship and more in how it mimics reality to propose a disconnect in the hypocrisy within the icon and of icon worship (but now I see it with more empathy not dismissal). For me it all works best if compared with the obsession with Ledger’s Joker who is an “it” - a validation of the ease of a nihilism that is confident and a psyche that is settled in the form of an alien not a human being (but a form of one that allows for false identification), which I’ve already written about a lot here. The scene on the talk show at the end where Phoenix takes on this attitude and then reveals it as a facade and himself as emotional doesn’t just discredit him and expose him as I initially declared but is empathetic and realistic to human psychology. So it is up for interpretation whether one now feels even closer to him for being human and a symbol of their own humanity catapulting therapy, or whether one still harnesses that humanity as further evidence fueling the fire. So they may not get the escapist facade of this confidence but that relationship can still be used for projective anger and icon worship. I just think the scene offers the opportunity for the therapeutic path that Ledger’s Joker didn’t. And of course the ideal reading, I think, is a combination where we can hold that sympathy and awareness of the hypocrisy and harm together at once, but of course this doesn’t exactly feel safe or comfortable for everyone to do.

Post Reply