World of Wong Kar Wai

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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Rupert Pupkin
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#51 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:06 pm

yes, beside the frame problem (bad conversion to 1080p24) the resolution although HD is not that good and I think that my French DVD is better even if this is an SD version.

did someone "work" on a fan-re-edit using the outtakes footage of "The Zone" (it reminds somehow "Stalker")- on the French DVD there is a lot of unused outtakes - as seen on the various trailer.
Of course it's SD, that's why a Criterion High-Res Blu-Ray with all these bonus would be great.
I would like to see a re-edit of the movie which would focus on the narrative Sc-Fi movie using the tunnel scene, these zone travelers like in Tarkovsky Stalker, etc...
There's an atmosphere of torpeur, lethargy in the movie which reminds me Tarkovsky.
Not that I don't like WKW edit; but I would be curious to see an alternate edit.

Zot!
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#52 Post by Zot! » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:49 am

Close The Door, Raymond wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:50 pm
So it seems there's a chance this will include:

Janus Films titles:
AS TEARS GO BY
DAYS OF BEING WILD
CHUNGKING EXPRESS - #453 - DVD & Blu-ray OOP
FALLEN ANGELS
HAPPY TOGETHER
IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE - #147 - DVD is in print but Blu-ray is "Currently Unavailable" at the CC website
THE HAND - a new director’s cut / segment from "Eros"

jwo17 source:
2046 via Sony

What about... ???
ASHES OF TIME - Sony / DVD only (US)
MY BLUEBERRY NIGHTS - Weinstein Co. / DVD only (US)
THE GRANDMASTER - Lionsgate / DVD & Blu-ray
Needs:
-Ashes of Time original cut in SD or whatever they can find
-2046
-Removal of all mention concerning Blueberry Nights.

otherwise, the run up to that incredible poo stain is unimpugnable.

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feihong
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:20 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#53 Post by feihong » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:02 pm

I know Criterion isn't likely to do this, but if anyone could even find an old print of Ashes of Time in its Hong Kong cut it would be more than welcome.

Recently some people on Youtube uploaded a 20-minute section of the Moon Lee/Yukari Oshima movie "Dreaming the Reality," in a print they had scanned themselves. It was filthy with dirt and scratches, but it still looked great. The rights holder put the kibosh on them uploading later segments, but my point is that the film was not only very watchable, but really gorgeous, with beautiful color, exciting crispness, etc. It didn't matter that it was like seeing the film in a grindhouse. So I think a scratchy old print of Ashes of Time would be infinitely better than that scummy Redux cut.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#54 Post by dwk » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:05 pm

feihong wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:02 pm
I know Criterion isn't likely to do this, but if anyone could even find an old print of Ashes of Time in its Hong Kong cut it would be more than welcome.

Recently some people on Youtube uploaded a 20-minute section of the Moon Lee/Yukari Oshima movie "Dreaming the Reality," in a print they had scanned themselves. It was filthy with dirt and scratches, but it still looked great. The rights holder put the kibosh on them uploading later segments, but my point is that the film was not only very watchable, but really gorgeous, with beautiful color, exciting crispness, etc. It didn't matter that it was like seeing the film in a grindhouse. So I think a scratchy old print of Ashes of Time would be infinitely better than that scummy Redux cut.
Criterion included the original cut of Police Story 2 that was from a theatrical print. The question really is does Wong Kar-wai want that version on the set (assuming Ashes of Time is going to be a part of the set.)

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feihong
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#55 Post by feihong » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:30 pm

I wish they could keep WKW out of the equation, honestly–though I know they won't. So much of the Redux seemed to be Wong's own ego, trying to paper over the more youthful–seeming movie he originally made with a pseudo–classy reconceptualization. I wonder if Wong has maybe mellowed on that project over the years, but I kind of doubt it.

Zot!
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#56 Post by Zot! » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:00 am

feihong wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:30 pm
I wish they could keep WKW out of the equation, honestly–though I know they won't. So much of the Redux seemed to be Wong's own ego, trying to paper over the more youthful–seeming movie he originally made with a pseudo–classy reconceptualization. I wonder if Wong has maybe mellowed on that project over the years, but I kind of doubt it.
I liked Redux enough to buy the UK Blu, but agreed that it is fussy and stinks of BMW ad revisionism for something that was genuinely exciting, weird and evocative . I don't think anybody watched Ashes of Time for the story, which made the changes that much more intrusive, unlike say Blade Runner, which seems to survive umpteen updates ok.

They won't, but it would be appropriate if they bookended a WKW golden era box with the two versions of Ashes of Time.

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The Fanciful Norwegian
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#57 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:22 pm

feihong wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:30 pm
I wish they could keep WKW out of the equation, honestly–though I know they won't.
I don't see how they could, given that Jet Tone owns all the post-Days of Being Wild work. A Japanese Blu-ray of Happy Together had the original cut as an extra (scanned from a theatrical print), but the differences there are so minor that it doesn't really tell us much about what Wong would be willing to tolerate vis-à-vis alternate cuts.

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whaleallright
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#58 Post by whaleallright » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:42 pm

You could do an entire box set with just the different cuts of either Days of Being Wild or Ashes of Time.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#59 Post by Orlac » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:11 am

Are there any original prints of ASHES OF TIME they could use ala POLICE STORY 2? They would probaby have burnt in subs but that is better than nothing.

hadyn
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 2:37 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#60 Post by hadyn » Mon May 11, 2020 3:15 pm

Wishful thinking: DJ Shadow's Six Days music video and some of the shorts and commercials WKW did for fashion brands and tech companies ("wkw/tk/1996@7′55″hk.net", Motorola, "There's Only One Sun", etc).

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#61 Post by cowboydan » Mon May 11, 2020 10:10 pm

hadyn wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:15 pm
Wishful thinking: DJ Shadow's Six Days music video and some of the shorts and commercials WKW did for fashion brands and tech companies ("wkw/tk/1996@7′55″hk.net", Motorola, "There's Only One Sun", etc).
I hadn't even thougt about possible shorts and extras until now. There's Only One Sun seems like an easy inclusion. The Follow (BMW) is one of my favorite shorts, so that would be wonderful to have in high definition. The Hand extended cut will be a treat. But if they manage to get wkw/tk/1996@7’55’’hk.net in high definition, that would beat all of the rest for me.

zombie.modernist
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:51 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#62 Post by zombie.modernist » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:41 pm

While Criterion has been pretty mum about their WKW box, it seems NOVA out of Korea is going to be releasing some of these restorations of 4K UHD discs which they've recently gotten into. Who knows what rights they will get compared to Criterion, or if they will do a box of the UHDs, but this seems like another case where Criterion's outright refusal to go to UHD may have folks looking elsewhere.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#63 Post by dwk » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:35 pm

The Playlist tweeted that the World of Wong Kar-wai theatrical tour is now scheduled to start on December 4th.

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criterionsnob
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#64 Post by criterionsnob » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:49 pm

dwk wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:35 pm
The Playlist tweeted that the World of Wong Kar-wai theatrical tour is now scheduled to start on December 4th.
And their Tweet includes a screen shot of 2046, though it still doesn't sound like it's part of the Janus tour.

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yoloswegmaster
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#65 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:58 am

Block 2 Films (the distribution arm of WKW's Jet Tone Films) confirmed that Criterion and Sony worked together on the restoration for '2046'. Still no confirmation on Ashes of TIme receiving a restoration.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#66 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:56 am

Official trailer for the In the Mood for Love restoration....

here

black&huge
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:35 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#67 Post by black&huge » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:16 pm

So.... is it just me or did WKW's supervision not matter because everything looks yellow as hell? But I also haven't seen the film in a good 5 years or so

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#68 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm

Many movies have been restored at Ritrovata with someone's approval or supervision but still retain mostly Ritrovata's LUT grading. It might also be that he didn't attend to the latest grading stage and give his approval before the final look was applied. What's interesting however is that the restoration has been indicated as performed by "Ritrovata and Criterion". When Criterion are involved, they usually are for the grading stage, with Lee Kline's involvement. Maybe it's just a prestige brand thing and not a technical partnership here. I wonder.
The other interesting thing is that my understanding is that the restoration is quite recent, probably no earlier than 2018, but Ritrovata was already dialing down their yellow LUT intensity, so I'm surprised to find it this visibly here.

But that's only a Youtube trailer, so we'll see more precisely when it hits the market. Except if there's a last minute pandemic accelaration forcing me to reconsider, In The Mood for Love will be one of the movies I'll see at Lyon Festival next month, which should already give me a good idea.

black&huge
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:35 am

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#69 Post by black&huge » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:29 pm

Can't wait for your feedback Tenia if all plans go through.

One thing I've always wondered why exactly does/did Ritrovata always apply a yellow tint to whatever they restored? Is it just one person making that decision and is that decision based on some reasoning that a yellow push makes it look more vintage? This I have been confused about for quite a while.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#70 Post by dwk » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:32 pm

I don't think the color grading on these was handled by Ritrovata, but I can't remember where I read that.

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yoloswegmaster
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#71 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 pm

dwk wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:32 pm
I don't think the color grading on these was handled by Ritrovata, but I can't remember where I read that.
Someone linked a facebook post from Ritrovata on the first page saying that a company called "One Cool Production" was in charge of the color grading. I saw another post somewhere saying that WKW himself was also supervising the color-gradings.

RIP Film
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#72 Post by RIP Film » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:55 pm

In the Mood for Love: Reloaded

Looks intentional, maybe he’s trying to make it more like 2046.

And maybe it’s just my internet, but what’s with all the artifacts? Definitely doesn’t look 4k.

Berzeli
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:13 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#73 Post by Berzeli » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:12 pm

Honestly it doesn't look that much more yellow than I remember it as being. Then again, can't account for my memory or the print I saw being correct either!

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#74 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:12 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm
The other interesting thing is that my understanding is that the restoration is quite recent, probably no earlier than 2018, but Ritrovata was already dialing down their yellow LUT intensity, so I'm surprised to find it this visibly here.
I think this may have been the version that was shown at the Lumière Festival in 2017 as part of their Wong retrospective. I can't find anything specifically confirming that, but in the masterclass Wong did there (also featuring an amusing appearance from Christopher Doyle in the audience), Thierry Frémaux said they would be screening a "restored copy" of the film that still hadn't arrived, implying it was a new restoration and not the older 2K scan used for the Blu-rays. I suppose it could've been a new 35mm print but that seems less likely.
RIP Film wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:55 pm
And maybe it’s just my internet, but what’s with all the artifacts? Definitely doesn’t look 4k.
The trailer tops out at 1080p. Combine that with Youtube's terrible compression and it's not going to look much like 4K.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Forthcoming: Wong Kar-wai Box

#75 Post by cowboydan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:25 pm

black&huge wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:29 pm
Can't wait for your feedback Tenia if all plans go through.

One thing I've always wondered why exactly does/did Ritrovata always apply a yellow tint to whatever they restored? Is it just one person making that decision and is that decision based on some reasoning that a yellow push makes it look more vintage? This I have been confused about for quite a while.
It's a good question. Some have (half jokingly?) wondered if the team there has improperly calibrated monitors. Someone there may also have a particular preference or perception that results in yellowish tint. From my understanding, some film stocks fade to a yellowish color with age. So a film like Dragon Inn from the late 60's has faded yellow and lost some of it's color. The restoration and grading is supposed to reverse the yellow tint and bring back the original color. But it can be hard to know exactly how much yellow to remove if you don't have some sort of reference print or someone from the original production to assist you (Dragon Inn had neither and its release retained too much yellow). In the case with these Wong Kar Wai films, there should be no excuse as there are many references available, and the director and both cinematographers are all alive and available. If the color grading was really handled by a different studio, then perhaps they are susceptible to the same or similar issues. If the new grading is the director's intent, it would wouldn't be the first time he chose to alter a film after the fact, but I'm not sure if fans would be on board with this.

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