Arnaud Desplechin

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#51 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:09 pm

swo17 wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:51 pm
Serious question, therewillbeblus: Are there like five of you?
Not that I'm aware of but I might have a double out there (poor Trois souvenirs de ma jeunesse reference), just an obsessive-compulsive guy with an addictive personality who doesn't sleep much, has a girlfriend buried in grad school, and a lot of time on my hands. As I start my next venture building up my own practice I expect to become more like 1/5 of a person though, so trying to take advantage of this time to soak up viewings.

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domino harvey
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#52 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:52 pm

That's just what I'd expect your team of movie watching interns to say

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#53 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:21 pm

Image

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Matt
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#54 Post by Matt » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:26 pm

Last edited by Matt on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin on DVD

#55 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:44 am

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:48 am
I watched Esther Kahn and dear lord, sign me up for the minority who find it a masterpiece! I can believe its stormy reception because it is so Desplechin-y— Long, winding, unpredictable, erratic, beautiful, well-observed, and filled with such a wealth of unexpected and un-anticipatable character beats
Further proof of Desplechin's comfort in sacrificing conventional narrative fluidity for pure emotion, this can come off like a series of isolated bursts of anthropological cores swinging on the vines of steady and transparent observation to bizarre disorder. I'm genuinely surprised at how negative basically every thought I can find on the internet written about this movie is.. sure it's defiant of the 'rules' of the viewing game, but the most consistent criticism I see is that Desplechin sacrifices attention to character for mise en scene, and I think his fidelity to his subjects is perhaps Desplechin's greatest strength, often masked as prioritizing ambiance when he understands how integral this milieu is to developing sides of his character's experience most filmmakers miss. There's an ineffable connection there that he finds, and I can't quite put my finger on how, but it's the novel energy felt that makes his films come alive in ways that feel like an upgrade in the medium via a fourth invisible dimension. I don't want to come off as narrow minded but I really don't understand how one can miss the raw honesty of this film's heroine. If Summer Phoenix subverts expectations of how an actor should behave, it's because people don't behave like actors. Sometimes they hold emotion in, become flat, and yet their soul permeates the character with subtle radiation of truth, and we get that here in spades. The acting lesson scenes call for that sincerity in uniqueness that will blow the audience (within the film) away, not to be flashy but to be honest with oneself in every particle of their being, which could be a mirror of what Desplechin does with his own characters and his own audience too.
SpoilerShow
The self-mutilation was unexpectedly intense, even for Desplechin, but it also demonstrates how he doesn't rely on external, more comfortable measures of mental health problems to gravitate to this space, and instead trusts the abrasive and eccentric behavior that comes with emotional dysregulation as true authenticity for Esther's experience.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#56 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 am

Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie sexuelle)

Perhaps it’s an odd comparison but this is the most novelistic film I may have seen after Vale Abraão, the difference being that this film breathes on a more intimate (and subsequently convoluted) fusion between subjective and objective perspective. Desplechin draws arguably his most flawed hero, and yet also the most kindred, as possessing the humanity to magnetize the audience to relation with only slight abrasion and more ease due to his sensitivity and confidence with the material. The selfishness that drives him (and plenty of other wonderfully complex characters in this film, even some who only get a brief monologue) is analyzed but also validated as human nature, dissected and presented as is sans guilt as our greatest barrier and protective factor against the raw intimacy of social relationships, disturbing harmony but containing the harm of total self-destruction. This reminded me of Margaret in that way - a subjective union but reserved enough where we can look at the behavior and psychology and empathize both outward to the screen and inward to ourselves.

There is an extra observant emotional theme that I’m not sure Desplechin has really hit quite the same way in his films since - that of a character who believes he’s self-aware, and is to a degree, but is also afraid to dig through that surface layer to the real authenticity of the discomfort that bars him from growth. He is partly the confident man he appears as but his core beliefs are rooted in fear just like the rest of us, and facing the actuality of his internal strains would be too painful so he solidifies his attitudes and escapes into fantasy, projections, and social distractions. So do the other men, and the women, and even our narrator spends most of the film unpacking the psychologies of each character experiencing distress at the overwhelming changes in dynamics that trigger vulnerability to their identities, but is this narrator even reliable or is he just scraping at the surface of these characters’ awarenesses, ironically professing an omniscient view but leaving the indescribable truths where they belong, and showing the limitations of even god’s ability to access and emit? The characters actually behave just like this omniscient narrator, confronting their partners, friends, and selves with similar analyses that further this irony of the impossibility of total knowledge and puts forth the idea that perhaps subjectivity is as significant as objectivity, and that nobody really knows anything more than anyone else in the end- while also not minimizing the importance and fun of such dissections!

I’ve rarely come across a character that I relate to so deeply as Paul, not in the attitudes, or personality, or behaviors that exist on the surface but on the psychology, the emotional defense mechanisms, the fear and doubt and directionless existential staticity that look for attention while driving the machine. This isn’t a portrait of a sad life, but an ordinary one that is simultaneously normalized against didacticism and individualized just like every one of us. Paul is given as much value and worth as anyone else, and his own character defects and defense mechanisms that hinder his participation in his growth are not pitied or judged but matched with his sense of humor, social resilience, wit, and other strengths that allow for his participation toward growth in his life. If that sounds contradictory it’s because it is and isn’t, it’s as complicated as any person can be summarized with words and yet very simple. It’s a humanist perspective, one of the few true ones, and for Desplechin- already a fairly humanist filmmaker- this is his most sensitive and validating film in that space that he naturally treats as familiar with an attitude of being comfortable with the uncomfortable. How can someone be both honest and deceitful towards themself and others, and still wind up as definitively authentic? I have an idea, but I couldn’t film it. Desplechin can.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin on DVD

#57 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:25 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:44 am
domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:48 am
I watched Esther Kahn and dear lord, sign me up for the minority who find it a masterpiece! I can believe its stormy reception because it is so Desplechin-y— Long, winding, unpredictable, erratic, beautiful, well-observed, and filled with such a wealth of unexpected and un-anticipatable character beats
Further proof of Desplechin's comfort in sacrificing conventional narrative fluidity for pure emotion, this can come off like a series of isolated bursts of anthropological cores swinging on the vines of steady and transparent observation to bizarre disorder.
Reading these I wonder if you both have seen Brizé's 'Ma Vie' which I think is also a likely candidate for similar appreciation. In fact Brizé's other work particularly with Vincent Lindon is highly recommended. The latest - La Loi du marché and En Guerre- take a more overtly political stance and dissect the cruelty of the labour market ,in turn redundancy and strike action, through stealth rather than the sentimental agitprop espoused by latter day Loach.

For the record I am a fervent Desplechin follower and find great joy in using his films as a barometer for the progression of Amalric's career.

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domino harvey
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#58 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:27 am

I haven’t, but will be watching at least La loi for the Cesars project, which I’m still dutifully working my way through without write ups with the goal of finishing this year

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#59 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:32 am

Regarding Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie sexuelle), I've been reeling about some gaps in the narrative this morning and just discovered that I watched the U.S. DVD which seems to have about six minutes cut. For those who have seen the uncut and cut versions, did I miss something or is Rabier's falling out with Paul not exactly explained? Why does Paul have a breakdown/health issues following the monkey scene? And why, oh why, did Marion Cotillard's underwear dance scene get cut, when it sounds like not only a spiritual experience for the viewer (from what I've read, I mean that in a non-sexual way, as an exhibition of beauty in the world that grounds one to the present) as well as for Ivan's character, establishing his own arc?

It's possible that I missed some of these things, but any help would be appreciated. I'll be finding the full version later on and giving it a proper rewatch.

Edit: The breakdown scene needs no explanation, and works just fine as the exact kind of enigmatic existential crisis that requires no continuity or holds for the audience to grab onto in order to be powerful - in fact it works better than it ever could with more context.

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domino harvey
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#60 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:58 am

I was planning to queue up a rewatch soon, so I'll keep an eye out for your questions

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#61 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:27 am

domino harvey wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:58 am
I was planning to queue up a rewatch soon, so I'll keep an eye out for your questions
Thanks! I'm assuming you have the uncut version from backchannels? These OOP French DVD prices are insane..

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domino harvey
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#62 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:30 am

I have the Cahiers double DVD set with Esther Kahn, which wasn’t a million dollars when I bought it a decade ago!

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#63 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:48 am

I just stumbled upon this reading from Senses of Cinema, which is a solid analysis of the film's many merits and complexities

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knives
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#64 Post by knives » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:17 pm

If I remember from my reading correctly the argument is never explained like with the title because Desplechin was trying to avoid a lawsuit as this was based on a real argument.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#65 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 pm

knives wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:17 pm
If I remember from my reading correctly the argument is never explained like with the title because Desplechin was trying to avoid a lawsuit as this was based on a real argument.
That makes a lot of sense - I knew about the title and their falling out (the actual colleague's name is almost identical) but didn't think of the possibility that the reserve would bleed into the context of the narrative as well

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#66 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:43 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:32 am
And why, oh why, did Marion Cotillard's underwear dance scene get cut, when it sounds like not only a spiritual experience for the viewer (from what I've read, I mean that in a non-sexual way, as an exhibition of beauty in the world that grounds one to the present) as well as for Ivan's character, establishing his own arc?

It's possible that I missed some of these things
So I looked up runtimes and apparently the 178 minute one is incorrect since the French disc seems to be 172 also on backchannels. I gave it another spin and found the Marion Cotillard scene (I don’t know how I could have possibly missed it but I did) so false alarm, my mistake.

I’d still love to engage in a discussion though especially around the strange mood shifts (i.e. the run through the woods post-monkey scene) once you see it domino!

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#67 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:44 pm

This is what happens when you're watching three screens of 1.5x-speed films at once

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#68 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:53 pm

Or when you nod off because you’re not sleeping due to watching too many movies and rewind to the wrong part :|

There are definitely some films where I’ll multitask a bit on, rewatches and such, but foreign language films and especially something with rapid fire dialogue like a Desplechin, well that’s just not even possible!

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#69 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:01 am

I went back and watched Desplechin’s first feature, La vie des morts, which is a more tightly contained milieu of family dynamics functioning dysfunctionally (yet comfortably) as they fight mourning - or perhaps they’re coping with death in their own individual ways - though this is still anything but a typical procedure in examining them. The opening breakfast explosion has no roots planted in audience awareness and the rant about suicide and children’s inherent hatred for mothers is hilarious, intense, and confusing all at once. The film continues to follow a strange path that’s loose in structure even if clearly deliberately structured around the little details and big ones equally. At a brief ~50 minutes, this is more like a third of a Desplechin film, but a third is better than none and I loved this, even if it’s a thin slice of greater things to come.

Marianne Denicourt, who steals scenes in his later films too, absolutely runs away with this film from her first scene having a panic attack in a bath tub, and if this one leaves you wanting more, at least we get her burning intensity contrasted with the idiosyncratic behavior of her family members for a good chunk of an hour. It’s always refreshing to see a filmmaker’s debut and witness a skill set and perspective already present from the start. I highly recommend checking this one out, especially in preparation for the “first films” list project coming up sometime in the future, as I’d expect this could very well make my own list. I mean, grown men practicing boxing at a funeral, a playfully dramatic and lengthy impromptu poetry recital, and one character woefully declaring that he doesn’t wash dishes because it “bores me to death” sans context while staring off into space are all markers of classic Desplechin, and those aren’t even close to the best parts of the movie, which come when it bravely and carefully lifts the coating of dark humor and shows its heart.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#70 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:27 pm

Made as a TV movie, La forêt finds a more consistent balance than most Desplechin in a rather straight focus on a few interpersonal relations, the barriers to exercising the will, and the inherent humor in communication. This really does resemble a filmed stage play, which it is, and while the narrative does takes some unexpected turns in introducing more characters and motives to muck up the narrative, I prefer his films made with a bit more breathing room. What is lost here is the authentic chaos that reveals a soul and opens up space for this energy to spread. There are scenes of raw emotion but they cannot overcome their artificiality, even if they would be far worse off in another filmmaker’s hands. This was a fine enough piece of passive entertainment, with witty dialogue, well-paired dynamics between actors, and strong technique. Worth checking out, even if it’s missing some of Desplechin’s auteurist charms just by definition of its less personal source.

I don’t have a strong urge to revisit Jimmy P but I feel a bit similarly in that it suffers in comparison to Desplechin’s other work because it doesn’t possess the personal intimacy I crave from the filmmaker. The film still retains his humanist meditations and offers space for the rapport-building process of therapy, which is the most significant, and the depiction of that aspect of the therapeutic relationship is a pleasure to watch unfold in all its empathy and absence of ulterior ambitions, which is where the director shines through the cracks to insert his beliefs in the product.

La Sentinelle is an amusing first full feature because it appears to follow the blueprint of a neo-noir crime plot or political thriller on the conceptual pitch, and yet its contents and vibe are unmistakably within the rhythm of Desplechin’s later films abandoning any connection to genre. There are spacious musings on young men brushing up against the curiosities of life, playful interludes, communication navigations, and enough dry humor to turn the realistic into surrealistic (there is an early scene involving doctors in medical school sheepishly struggling with their lesson while examining a dead body that had me roaring). If anything this is more of a romantic comedy-drama than the crime thriller it toys with, though it’s really just about a guy entering adulthood, having experiences, and contemplating his identity. It’ll be interesting to see how Desplechin handles the return to the “crime” film once we get English subs for Oh Mercy! but my guess is it won’t be quite so loose in structure or intentionally subverted from its visible subject.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#71 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:13 am

Léo, en jouant 'Dans la compagnie des hommes': A strange meta-exercise, especially in light of the interview Matt posted upthread about Desplechin’s comments on film vs. the theatre. I’m not going to analyze this through heavy post-modernism, but Desplechin strikes me as someone who enjoys the depth of drama and the breathing room of filmmaking unhinged from constraints, often demonstrated with playfulness and puzzling distractions to the main narrative. Here he has his fun with the play but cannot help bringing it all back to the actuality of the authentic being filming the rehearsal and revealing the pure tightly followed narrative drama as artificial. I don’t know if Desplechin is trying to make a point but I do think that he is probably not interested in rigid filmmaking or perhaps cannot resist the urge to capture meandering and rambling realism, and all the comedy and magic such an eye allows even in the banal process of a play reading.

Going hand in hand seemingly is L'Aimée, a documentary that transforms into a narrative in the telling of a deeper mystery narrative that is only “found” by Desplechin’s curiosity and willingness to ask questions with genuine interest. His empathy is fascinating to watch as the interviewer to his father, and in asking him how he feels regarding deep-seeded relationship dynamics is indicative of how the director thinks about his characters, by feeling through them. The final lines are heart-wrenching and beautiful, and this is the perfect feature to accompany Un conte de Noël on Criterion’s disc, for there are uncanny similarities between them, down to the physical resembles and internal feel of the house and neighborhood, the makeup of family members who visit, and even Desplechin’s own nonchalant admittance of his frequent heavy drinking and other familiar characteristics he exhibits in voiceover and disposition. I thought this was a wonderful film and one of those fiction-doc hybrids that actually works, especially when as personal as this.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#72 Post by Never Cursed » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:25 am

Trailer for Oh, Mercy! which indicates that it will be released in Australia through Madman Films

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#73 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:10 pm

Never Cursed wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:25 am
Trailer for Oh, Mercy! which indicates that it will be released in Australia through Madman Films
Well perhaps this trailer, which paints a rather gung-ho police procedural, may do the business of inciting interest but those of us anxious to see something bearing the imprint of Arnaud can rest assured of a different ride. Certainly the first half of the film sports the hoary old chestnuts of grizzled police inspector and rookie junior patrolling the mean streets of feral life but this is very much an affair of two halves which evolves into a tragedy of wretchedness. The main character Daoud, a placid long serving inspector of Algerian descent cuts an almost Franciscan figure in his approach but exudes a charisma that demands respect from his underlings.
Desplechin has expressed his desire to paint a portrait of his home city Roubaix. Roubaix, in the most northern extreme of France where if you tripped over you would land in Belgium, was once a prosperous and proud textile city which has fallen into disrepair and disrepute, it's people abandoned and prey to predators. And so we are guided on a road trip illustrating the tragedy of the city and its inhabitants before we arrive within the confines of the interrogation room of the commissariat following the discovery of a callous murder. This is where we find Desplechin at his most refined with scenes both harrowing and moving which powerfully elucidate the tragic human cost of all this.
The English version will be called Oh Mercy which may hint at this or else some marketing whizz thinks it exudes the right level of True detective funkiness but the French original of "Roubaix une Lumière" perhaps expresses the author's ambiguous intentions more.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#74 Post by tenia » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:01 pm

Dont know if you got the same impression, but it made me feel like Desplechin was making some kind of updated 50s film noir, except now the detective is drinking Perrier instead of whisky.
In any case, the Miss and myself liked it a lot, though the rookie's voice over and general christian behavior felt vastly pointless, and there also was a few moments that felt like superfluously piling on the derelict state of the region nowadays (note : I studied nearby at Lille for 3 years).
IIRC, nearby populations didnt really like how Desplechin paints the area in the movie, though I suppose it'll never be as bad as where Dumont shot (IIRC again) Flandres.

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Re: Arnaud Desplechin

#75 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:07 pm

I agree that it seemed that it was the traditional detective re-modelled into a sort of new-age saintly figure which was a bit worrying at first but I bought into it quickly as it seemed an integral part of his character rather than superficial. I also found the narration element from Louis and his diary/cahier entry perhaps the most clumsy aspect like an except from the Lonely Planet guide to Roubaix and was expecting it to turn into something more radical like the to camera narration in Conte de Noël but as it soon fell to one side I just shrugged and ignored it. I can't believe that Desplechin thought it anything other than expedient to slip in something expositional about the state of Roubaix rather than stylistically invigorating. On the whole though these are minor quibbles given what I think he has succeeded in creating with this seemingly perverse but heartfelt hommage to his home town and its people. Re the local displeasure - Arnaud's handling and portrayal of his characters are light years away from Bruno's so I doubt whether he'll ever receive the same degree of flak! (Add smiley emoji of you choice)

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