The Lists Project
- duane hall
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:18 am
Mini-series, I understand. (Thinking of the obvious classics, Decalogue, Berlin Alexanderplatz, Fanny and A, Scenes from a Marriage and the like.) But the line has to be drawn before television series, certainly. I mean... right? I think to qualify, a film must be categorizable as either a feature or a short. Music videos would qualify as short films. The aforementioned mini-series can reasonably be called features. But.. sitcoms, TV dramas ... would throw the list into total incoherence.
- Brian Oblivious
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:38 pm
- Location: 'Frisco
- Contact:
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Amazing. I was just thinking of this very issue in regard to my 70s list and had logged on to raise it.
I was going to propose that TV movies should automatically be admissable (and this would include one-off plays, so that 1970s Mike Leigh enthusiasts, for example, could opt for Abigail's Party rather than Bleak Moments) and seek a ruling on mini-series, which I think should also be acceptable. I think our lists of significant movies would be unfairly distorted if we couldn't include things like Berlin Alexanderplatz ot The Decalogue. It would be mighty odd if you could only vote for the short version of Fanny and Alexander, or the (generally considered inferior) theatrical version of Scum. Some directors, such as Clarke, worked primarily in television, even though they're a major part of film culture.
I reckon that one-off shorts like Avery's Grinch are fair game as well. I'm considering the eerie Spanish The Phone Box for the 70s, and I think that might have been originally made for TV.
I agree that we should draw the line at TV series (though there are series of The Sopranos that probably outperform most other American films of their era), or individual episodes of TV series (even though there may be individual contributions to anthology shows that are significant works in a director's oeuvre).
I like the music videos ruling (come into my list, Come Into My World), even though it makes everything much more complicated. And we probably still need to decide what to do with pilots (e.g. Twin Peaks).
I was going to propose that TV movies should automatically be admissable (and this would include one-off plays, so that 1970s Mike Leigh enthusiasts, for example, could opt for Abigail's Party rather than Bleak Moments) and seek a ruling on mini-series, which I think should also be acceptable. I think our lists of significant movies would be unfairly distorted if we couldn't include things like Berlin Alexanderplatz ot The Decalogue. It would be mighty odd if you could only vote for the short version of Fanny and Alexander, or the (generally considered inferior) theatrical version of Scum. Some directors, such as Clarke, worked primarily in television, even though they're a major part of film culture.
I reckon that one-off shorts like Avery's Grinch are fair game as well. I'm considering the eerie Spanish The Phone Box for the 70s, and I think that might have been originally made for TV.
I agree that we should draw the line at TV series (though there are series of The Sopranos that probably outperform most other American films of their era), or individual episodes of TV series (even though there may be individual contributions to anthology shows that are significant works in a director's oeuvre).
I like the music videos ruling (come into my list, Come Into My World), even though it makes everything much more complicated. And we probably still need to decide what to do with pilots (e.g. Twin Peaks).
- Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm
- duane hall
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:18 am
Well, the rule was... Go with IMDB even if it's technically incorrect. But Gates of Heaven encourages an exception... We could make a list in this thread establishing "our" dates for some of the more controversial cases. For such titles we would come to consensus through some discussion.
It just seems a little more natural to push Breathless into the 60s, for instance, than to have Gates of Heaven leap-frog all the way into the 80s.
But then, sticking with IMDB in all cases is much simpler.
It just seems a little more natural to push Breathless into the 60s, for instance, than to have Gates of Heaven leap-frog all the way into the 80s.
But then, sticking with IMDB in all cases is much simpler.
- Rufus T. Firefly
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:24 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
The 1960s List (compiled in August 2005):
- 1. 8½ (Fellini, 1963), 554
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick, 1968), 522
3. Andrei Rublev (Tarkovsky, 1966), 505
4. L'Avventura (Antonioni, 1960), 487
5. Playtime (Tati, 1967), 464
6. Persona (Bergman, 1966), 460
7. La Dolce Vita (Fellini, 1960), 438
8. Contempt (Godard, 1963), 385
9. Dr. Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (Kubrick, 1964), 378
10. Psycho (Hitchcock, 1960), 376
11. Jules And Jim (Truffaut, 1961), 352
12. The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1965), 347
13. Once Upon a Time in the West (Leone, 1968), 338
14. Au hasard Balthazar (Bresson, 1966), 327
15. The Apartment (Wilder, 1960), 315
16. Le Samourai (Melville, 1967), 314
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Leone, 1966), 314
18. L'Eclisse (Antonioni, 1962), 313
19. Blow-Up (Antonioni, 1966), 305
20. Breathless (Godard, 1960), 300
21. Cléo from 5 to 7 (Varda, 1962), 294
22. My Life to Live (Godard, 1962), 290
23. Faces (Cassavetes, 1968), 286
24. La Jetee (Marker, 1962), 279
25. Lawrence of Arabia (Lean, 1962), 262
26. Woman in the Dunes (Teshigahara, 1964), 259
Last Year at Marienbad (Resnais, 1961), 259
28. Viridiana (Buñuel, 1961), 258
29. Band of Outsiders (Godard, 1964), 246
30. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (Demy, 1964), 242
31. The Leopard (Visconti, 1963), 234
32. Yojimbo (Kurosawa, 1961), 230
33. The Birds (Hitchcock, 1963), 229
34. Rocco and His Brothers (Visconti, 1960), 217
35. Peeping Tom (Powell, 1960), 216
36. My Night at Maud's (Rohmer, 1969), 212
37. Belle de Jour (Luis Bunuel, 1967), 202
38. High and Low (Kurosawa, 1963), 198
39. Two or Three Things I Know About Her (Godard, 1966), 192
40. Il Posto (Olmi, 1961), 189
41. Weekend (Godard, 1967), 188
42. Night of the Living Dead (Romero, 1968), 175
43. Pierrot Le Fou (Godard, 1965), 174
44. The Trial (Welles, 1962), 170
45. Le Trou (Becker, 1960), 166
46. An Autumn Afternoon (Ozu, 1962), 158
47. Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors (Paradzhanov, 1964), 156
48. Branded to Kill (Suzuki, 1967), 155
49. The Silence (Bergman, 1963), 154
50. Late Autumn (Ozu, 1960), 152
51. Ivan's Childhood (Tarkovsky, 1962), 149
52. Dog Star Man (Brakhage, 1964), 148
53. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (Ford, 1962), 145
54. Shoot the Piano Player (Truffaut, 1960), 144
55. Gertrud (Dreyer, 1964), 142
56. Bonnie and Clyde (Penn, 1967), 138
57. Winter Light (Bergman, 1962), 136
58. The Graduate (Nichols, 1967), 130
59. Red Beard (Kurosawa, 1965), 127
Rosemary's Baby (Polanski, 1968), 127
61. Lolita (Kubrick, 1962), 126
62. The Manchurian Candidate (Frankenheimer, 1962), 124
63. Tokyo Drifter (Suzuki, 1966), 123
64. I Fidanzati (Olmi, 1963), 122
65. The Exterminating Angel (Buñuel, 1962), 121
66. The Young Girls of Rochefort (Demy, 1967), 119
Tokyo Olympiad (Ichikawa, 1965), 119
68. Juliet of The Spirits (Fellini, 1965), 115
69. A Hard Day's Night (Lester, 1964), 112
70. Repulsion (Polanski, 1965), 110
Simon of the Desert (Buñuel, 1965), 110
72. West Side Story(Wise/Robbins, 1961), 108
73. Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969), 107
74. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (Nichols, 1966), 106
75. Alphaville (Godard, 1965), 103
Mothlight (Brakhage, 1963), 103
77. Fellini Satyricon (Fellini, 1969), 102
Point Blank (Boorman, 1967), 102
79. Red Desert (Antonioni, 1964), 100
80. Naked Island (Shindo, 1960), 99
Lola (Demy, 1961), 99
82. Mouchette (Bresson, 1967), 97
83. Hour of the Wolf (Bergman, 1968), 96
Eyes Without a Face (Franju, 1960), 96
85. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (Hill, 1969), 95
86. The Hustler (Rossen, 1961), 91
87. The Wild Bunch (Peckinpah, 1969), 89
88. Kwaidan (Kobayashi, 1964), 88
89. Youth of the Beast (Suzuki, 1963), 87
90. The House Is Black (Farrokhzad, 1963), 86
91. Petulia (Lester, 1968), 84
Marnie (Hitchcock, 1964), 84
Divorce Italian Style (Germi, 1961), 84
94. The Milky Way (Buñuel, 1969), 82
Carnival of Souls (Harvey, 1962), 82
96. Black Sunday (Bava, 1960), 80
A Woman is a Woman (Godard, 1961), 80
98. The Temptation of Doctor Antonio (Fellini, 1962), 79
The End of Summer (Ozu, 1961), 79
100. For A Few Dollars More (Leone, 1965), 78
Fighting Elegy (Suzuki, 1966), 78
- Brian Oblivious
- Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:38 pm
- Location: 'Frisco
- Contact:
Archie Leach, thanks for getting this done!
I'm not too surprised that Jerry Lewis, Dusan Makavajev, Artavazd Peleshian, King Hu, and Ousmane Sembene failed to have films on the list.
But I'm pretty shocked that Pasolini is completely absent.
Anyway a nice list to peruse. 32 films I still look forward to seeing for the first time. Plus another 27 I've never seen in a cinema.
I'm not too surprised that Jerry Lewis, Dusan Makavajev, Artavazd Peleshian, King Hu, and Ousmane Sembene failed to have films on the list.
But I'm pretty shocked that Pasolini is completely absent.
Anyway a nice list to peruse. 32 films I still look forward to seeing for the first time. Plus another 27 I've never seen in a cinema.
- Penny Dreadful
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:32 am
Gasp!! Slightly over a dozen of my choices ended up on the list, and those were mostly the obvious ones like The Apartment and 2001 (which I dutifully buried since I knew they'd show up). I'm not overly fond of Godard, Fellini, Antonioni, Demy, and the rest of that crew (heresy, I know). The 60's was truly their decade, so I shouldn't be surprised, but still... No Medium Cool or The Haunting! Not even The Manchurian Candidate, The Misfits or Midnight Cowboy, films I thought were shoo-ins?!?! I realize this decade was Europe's time to shine, but Hollywood was pumping them out big and bad too! I can't believe "Lola" is on there and "The Pumpkin Eater" isn't! FIE, I SAY!!
Anyway, this was my top 10:
1. Splendor in the Grass
2. Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
3. The Virgin Spring
4. Skidoo
5. A Hard Day's Night
6. West Side Story
7. Andrei Rublev
8. Night of the Living Dead
9. Midnight Cowboy
10. Wild in the Streets
I'll defend it to the death if necessary... including Skidoo. ESPECIALLY Skidoo.
PS. Thanks for getting this done, Archie!
Anyway, this was my top 10:
1. Splendor in the Grass
2. Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
3. The Virgin Spring
4. Skidoo
5. A Hard Day's Night
6. West Side Story
7. Andrei Rublev
8. Night of the Living Dead
9. Midnight Cowboy
10. Wild in the Streets
I'll defend it to the death if necessary... including Skidoo. ESPECIALLY Skidoo.
PS. Thanks for getting this done, Archie!
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
Grazie, Archie!
This whole Lists project is a really valuable tool because it continues to help me to discover new films such as Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors which I've never heard of.
I Am Cuba is not on the list!
This whole Lists project is a really valuable tool because it continues to help me to discover new films such as Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors which I've never heard of.
I Am Cuba is not on the list!
Last edited by Michael on Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
- kieslowski_67
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:39 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
- Location: LA CA
This time, unfortunately, I've seen all 101 of the films, so the list is less useful for me than the prior ones. And I suspect as we move forward in time and as more and more people submit lists, the results will be increasingly conservative.Penny Dreadful wrote:Slightly over a dozen of my choices ended up on the list, and those were mostly the obvious ones!
fwiw, then, here are some of the films from my top twenty that didn't make the list, which means either that (sadly) not many have seen them or that (crushing blow to my taste) they didn't care for them. If the former... Enjoy!
Franju Thomas the Impostor, Matsumoto Funeral Parade of Roses, Resnais Muriel, Conner "Breakaway", Paradjanov Color of Pomegranates, Robbe-Grillet Trans-Europ-Express
- Andre Jurieu
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:38 pm
- Location: Back in Milan (Ind.)
#62 with a score of 124.Penny Dreadful wrote:Not even The Manchurian Candidate
I haven't participated in these at all and I doubt I will, but after all these lists for each decade are done, why don't we have 1 last list for the Top 100 Forgotten Films. The same rules could apply but just have it span across the past century.
- Penny Dreadful
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:32 am
Hmm. I scanned the list a few times looking for that one, but I guess I missed it somehow. So just imagine I typed "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?" in that last post instead of "The Manchurian Candidate".#62 with a score of 124.
Yeah, I'm also more interested in those lesser-known films.This time, unfortunately, I've seen all 101 of the films, so the list is less useful for me than the prior ones. And I suspect as we move forward in time and as more and more people submit lists, the results will be increasingly conservative.
- lord_clyde
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:22 am
- Location: Ogden, UT
- Kambei
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:23 pm
- Location: Toronto
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
I could say the same thing about Mamma Roma. Salo will definitely be on my '70s list."Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!?
What Ever Happened To Baby Jane? is nowhere to be found on the '60s list. I simply can't believe it! I have to say that it's really great to see Cleo From 5 to 7 ranked very high.
So Archie, are you going to move on to the 70s list?
- kieslowski_67
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:39 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Actually after I visited the list again, it looks more like a Criterion who's who list, adding some usual suspects and a little spice here and there.Simon wrote:It's normal that the list ended up looking mostly like the standard canon. Everyone probably sent a few personnal favorites but these are usually buried by the common choices, like in the Sight & Sound poll.
- kieslowski_67
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:39 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Then I am lucky to have the 4 Japanese Theo box sets in my private collection. His 'traveling players', 'landscape in the mist" and "eternity and a day" will definitely be on my top 10, or 20 list for the 70s, 80s, and 90s.Kambei wrote:I can only imagine it is because his movies are not readily available as R1 DVDs. I suspect that Theo Angelopulos will have a similarly hard time breaking into the 70s list.kieslowski_67 wrote:"Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!?
And I wish that I will see Kusturica's name (underground, time of the Gypsies, when father was away) on the 80s and 90s list.
- Rufus T. Firefly
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:24 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Rufus T. Firefly
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:24 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
These are all the 1960s films which were on two or more lists but didn't make it into the top 101. I note most of the 'missing' movies mentioned are here.
- Seconds (Frankenheimer, 1966)
Onibaba (Shindo, 1964)
Salesman (Maysles, 1969)
Le Doulos (Melville, 1963)
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? (Aldrich, 1962)
A Fistful of Dollars (Leone, 1964)
Muriel (Resnais, 1963)
The Haunting (Wise, 1963)
The Gospel According To St Matthew (Pasolini, 1966)
Easy Rider (Hopper, 1969)
The War Game (Watkins, 1965)
Through a Glass Darkly (Bergman, 1961)
Color of Pomegranates (Paradjanov, 1968)
I Am Cuba (Kalatozov, 1964)
Signs of Life (Herzog, 1968)
Window Water Baby Moving (Brakhage, 1962)
Salvatore Giuliano (Rosi, 1962)
Closely Watched Trains (Menzel, 1966)
Stolen Kisses (Truffaut, 1968)
Billy Liar (Schlesinger, 1963)
Midnight Cowboy (Schlesinger, 1969)
Fando and Lis (Jodorowsky, 1967)
Trans-Europ-Express (Robbe-Grillet, 1966)
Mamma Roma (Pasolini, 1962)
A Charlie Brown Christmas (Melendez, 1965)
Teorema (Pasolini, 1968)
Goldfinger (Hamilton, 1964)
Black God, White Devil (Rocha, 1964)
The Damned (Visconti, 1969)
The Virgin Spring (Bergman, 1960)
Memories of Underdevelopment (Gutierrez Alea, 1968)
The Sword of Doom (Okamoto, 1966)
Masculin-Feminin (Godard, 1966)
Les Bonnes Femmes (Chabrol, 1960)
Medea (Pasolini, 1969)
The Firemen's Ball (Forman, 1967)
Shop on Main Street (Kadar/Klos, 1965)
The Red and the White (Jancso, 1967)
Trial of Joan of Arc (Bresson, 1962)
The Round-Up (Jancso, 1966)
Oedipus Rex (Pasolini, 1967)
Doctor Zhivago (Lean, 1965)
The Servant (Losey, 1963)
The Flat (Svankmajer, 1968)
If (Anderson, 1968)
Knife in the Water (Polanski, 1962)
Comanche Station (Boetticher, 1960)
Toby Dammit (Fellini, 1968)
Thunderball (Young, 1965)
The Face of Another (Teshigahara, 1966)
Kes (Loach, 1969)
Sanjuro (Kurosawa, 1962)
Diary of a Chambermaid (Bunuel, 1964)
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (Jones/Washam, 1966)
The Passion of Anna (Bergman, 1969)
Bullitt (Yates, 1968)
Mississippi Mermaid (Truffaut, 1969)
Medium Cool (Wexler, 1969)
The Saragossa Manuscript (Has, 1965)
Chelsea Girls (Warhol/Morrissey, 1966)
The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach (Straub/Huillet, 1968)
Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow (De Sica, 1963)
Bay Of Angels (Demy, 1963)
Loves of a Blonde (Forman, 1965)
Shame (Bergman, 1968)
Take The Money And Run (Allen, 1969)
The Fearless Vampire Killers (Polanski, 1967)
Accident (Losey, 1967)
An Actor's Revenge (Ichikawa, 1963)
Chimes at Midnight (Welles, 1966)
Les Carabiniers (Godard, 1963)
La Notte (Antonioni, 1961)
Young Törless (Schlondorff, 1966)
Breakfast At Tiffany's (Edwards, 1961)
Fahrenheit 451 (Truffaut, 1966)
The Naked Kiss (Fuller, 1964)
House of Usher (Corman, 1960)
The Tomb of Ligeia (Corman, 1965)
The Steamroller and the Violin (Tarkovsky, 1960)
Funny Girl (Wyler, 1968)
Batman: The Movie (Martinson, 1966)
Spartacus (Kubrick, 1960)
The Producers (Brooks, 1968)
Cruel Story of Youth (Oshima, 1960)