The theaters get the same money from MasterCard they’d get if you were using a personal credit card, I’m not sure why this part keeps getting lost in translationRibs wrote:That the theaters never agreed to be party to this scheme to siphon off their profits that have been doing just fine?
MoviePass and Other Cinema Subscription Services
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: MoviePass
But that’s just for now - by participating in the program they are encouraging the growth of their market share to the point they’ll be able to selectively target individual theaters and films if they don’t fork over a percentage of their gross. I honestly think, much like a Netflix subscription, it’s impossible for me to even consider supporting this as their endgoal is to totally destroy the industry.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: MoviePass
I dunno, that's a funny definition of "forcing themselves" on theaters.
Their endgoal (aside from the data analytics angle) is simple and it makes perfect sense - they want to drive more people to the movies and then get paid a share for their trouble. In every other business, companies pay top dollar to consultants to drive more business their ways. But for some reason the film exhibition industry is happy to just sit on their hands while attendance whittles away. And so they see MoviePass out there willing to put their money into supplying them more customers, and somehow they've figured out a way to get enraged by this. That's just completely absurd and entirely reactionary.
Anyway, along those lines, here in Chicago I feel anecdotally as if MoviePass saturation is at about 90%. Obviously that's not actually true, but seriously, whenever I'm buying my tickets, the people in front of me have MoviePasses. When I walk up to the kiosks at, say, the AMC 600 N Michigan, there's always people around standing around checking in on MoviePass. And attendance at the repertory shows at the Music Box or the Siskel these days seems waaaay higher on average than it used to be.
So, it seems unsurprising to me that Landmark decided to throw in with MoviePass. Again, this is all anecdotal, but I'm guessing that MoviePass these days is a pretty common thing in cities but less so in other places, and Landmark is a chain that's almost entirely in urban places. And also they're not run by knuckle-dragging morons willing to go down defending an ever-shrinking piece of turf just because it's theirs.
Their endgoal (aside from the data analytics angle) is simple and it makes perfect sense - they want to drive more people to the movies and then get paid a share for their trouble. In every other business, companies pay top dollar to consultants to drive more business their ways. But for some reason the film exhibition industry is happy to just sit on their hands while attendance whittles away. And so they see MoviePass out there willing to put their money into supplying them more customers, and somehow they've figured out a way to get enraged by this. That's just completely absurd and entirely reactionary.
Anyway, along those lines, here in Chicago I feel anecdotally as if MoviePass saturation is at about 90%. Obviously that's not actually true, but seriously, whenever I'm buying my tickets, the people in front of me have MoviePasses. When I walk up to the kiosks at, say, the AMC 600 N Michigan, there's always people around standing around checking in on MoviePass. And attendance at the repertory shows at the Music Box or the Siskel these days seems waaaay higher on average than it used to be.
So, it seems unsurprising to me that Landmark decided to throw in with MoviePass. Again, this is all anecdotal, but I'm guessing that MoviePass these days is a pretty common thing in cities but less so in other places, and Landmark is a chain that's almost entirely in urban places. And also they're not run by knuckle-dragging morons willing to go down defending an ever-shrinking piece of turf just because it's theirs.
- DarkImbecile
- Ask me about my visible cat breasts
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Re: MoviePass
I don’t see any comparison between MoviePass and Netflix in terms of ‘totally destroying the industry’; the latter is actively trying to undermine if not end altogether the practice of seeing movies in theaters, while the former is trying to reinforce if not invigorate that practice in a way that changes (but doesn’t eradicate) the business of exhibition. Even if - as you’ve predicted - the whole venture is unsustainable, it is right now building habits of increased moviegoing among an ever-increasing base of subscribers, which cannot be a bad thing in and of itself.
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: MoviePass
Yes, because those subscribers aren’t actually interested in paying to see movies.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: MoviePass
OK, let's just assume this is true. So MoviePass is paying to get people who "aren't actually interested in paying to see movies" into theaters. This destroys the theater business how, exactly? As I alluded to earlier, I haven't heard an answer to this from you or the industry that isn't pure reactionarism.Ribs wrote:Yes, because those subscribers aren’t actually interested in paying to see movies.
Moreover, even the reactionary logic rests the implied admission that movie ticket prices are too high to begin with. So even if the doomsday scenario does come to pass, exhibitors will have no one to blame but themselves. Somewhere along the line, movies went from being a cheap night out to something that most people have to budget for - indeed, it's very common that buying the film on disc is cheaper than buying a ticket to see it theatrically - and it's no wonder that someone came along to exploit the feeling that most people have that movies just aren't worth it unless it's something they're dying to see.
- DarkImbecile
- Ask me about my visible cat breasts
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Re: MoviePass
I wasn’t capable of paying for all the movies I wanted to see when I was 14-16, so I would buy one ticket on a weekend morning and stay for twelve hours watching movies I hadn’t paid for. That established a habit that - now that I can afford to pay for tickets - led me to pay to see 70ish movies in the theater last year before I subscribed to MoviePass.
I’m pretty sure exhibitors would prefer to have teenagers or other people who aren’t interested in or capable of paying for movies seeing five movies a week with a MoviePass than a) staying home and watching Netflix or b) stealing four of the five movies like I did.
(I never got caught, but I always imagined that if I had been, I would argue to the manager that they’d rather have me buy one ticket and linger all day in the theater spending what little money I had on concessions than buying two tickets but then having to leave to eat... it was really a win-win for both of us!)
I’m pretty sure exhibitors would prefer to have teenagers or other people who aren’t interested in or capable of paying for movies seeing five movies a week with a MoviePass than a) staying home and watching Netflix or b) stealing four of the five movies like I did.
(I never got caught, but I always imagined that if I had been, I would argue to the manager that they’d rather have me buy one ticket and linger all day in the theater spending what little money I had on concessions than buying two tickets but then having to leave to eat... it was really a win-win for both of us!)
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: MoviePass
Having worked a long time in a lot of movie theaters, I can tell you with pretty fair confidence that they usually knew you were there and didn't care, especially if you were by yourself. Groups of kids were always assumed to be loud and disruptive and generally a pain in the ass, but a kid on their own we almost always left alone. Adults we would bust just for the fun of it, though.DarkImbecile wrote:(I never got caught, but I always imagined that if I had been, I would argue to the manager that they’d rather have me buy one ticket and linger all day in the theater spending what little money I had on concessions than buying two tickets but then having to leave to eat... it was really a win-win for both of us!)
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
I’m certain that once MoviePass does look for a piece of the pie, they aren’t expecting to shake that money out of the pockets of indie theaters. The money is in multiplexes, particularly in concessions. They’d have a pretty short rope if they got into this to grift one and two screen indie theaters.
-
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:57 am
- Location: East Coast, USA
Re: MoviePass
Based on how shady and passive aggressive MoviePass has been over the past several months, I wouldn't put anything past them, and if this thread is any indication, it might well make sense for MoviePass to shake down smaller independent chains and even mom and pop theaters, especially when the big boys don't play ball, which I don't believe they will or should. After all, it's not like MoviePass will have nearly as much effect on someone's decision to see a superhero film playing everywhere, versus a small independent film only playing at, say, a Landmark Theatre location.mfunk9786 wrote:I’m certain that once MoviePass does look for a piece of the pie, they aren’t expecting to shake that money out of the pockets of indie theaters. The money is in multiplexes, particularly in concessions. They’d have a pretty short rope if they got into this to grift one and two screen indie theaters.
- Luke M
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
Re: MoviePass
I can’t see the MoviePass shakedown coming for awhile. They’d have to be able to prove audiences are seeing more movies + spending more on concessions because of their service. That seems hard.
- Big Ben
- Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
- Location: Great Falls, Montana
Re: MoviePass
Popcorn price markup is over one thousand percent. Something that costs less than fifty cents can easily go for over ten dollars at my local place. It's safe to say, at least where I live that Theaters are more of a food business that does movies on the side. MoviePass at least for someone like me is a steal because I don't buy concessions.Luke M wrote:I can’t see the MoviePass shakedown coming for awhile. They’d have to be able to prove audiences are seeing more movies + spending more on concessions because of their service. That seems hard.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: MoviePass
AMC River East back on the list here in Chicago. Between this and the Landmark partnership, this week has seen my MoviePass approval rating jump very sharply.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
Looks like AMC has folded on this particular front altogether - all AMC theaters now accepted againBrian C wrote:AMC River East back on the list here in Chicago. Between this and the Landmark partnership, this week has seen my MoviePass approval rating jump very sharply.
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: MoviePass
AMC never had anything to do with it - it was MoviePass that arbitrarily imposed the limit to force AMC to the table. It didn't work.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
Got it. Being misreported all over the place. It's amazing that these theater chains continue to act totally ignorant to the fact that they're getting more traffic because of this service, but I'm sure they'll come around.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: MoviePass
I doubt it has substantively increased traffic rather most movie pass users are people who were already going to the movies but now use a different card to buy their ticket.
It’s like when a city opens a new rail line, 90%+ of the rail ridership are simply bus riders from adjacent parallel routes switching to the rail line, very little new ridership is induced by the presence of the superior alternative.
On the other hand, since it is a subscription service it could also be compared to a gym membership. Gyms are terrible places to go to in January and February as all the “New Year New Me” people crowd them, but then the NYNM people all stop going to the gym but keep paying their monthly membership fee because they intend to go, they just don’t get around to it. All the while there are dedicated exercisers who keep up their routine regardless of the seasonal flooding of the gym.
Theaters are probably watching extremely closely to see how the MoviePass model compares to a gym model. If there are a couple surge periods of use and then much longer periods of little use which would indicate major profitability possibilities in the subscription then we may see them start rolling out their own in house subscription models.
But I mean the theatres know movie pass makes all its money selling data ala Cambridge analytica, and the carrot of movies is just the incentive to allow them to harvest everything off your phone and resell it.
It’s like when a city opens a new rail line, 90%+ of the rail ridership are simply bus riders from adjacent parallel routes switching to the rail line, very little new ridership is induced by the presence of the superior alternative.
On the other hand, since it is a subscription service it could also be compared to a gym membership. Gyms are terrible places to go to in January and February as all the “New Year New Me” people crowd them, but then the NYNM people all stop going to the gym but keep paying their monthly membership fee because they intend to go, they just don’t get around to it. All the while there are dedicated exercisers who keep up their routine regardless of the seasonal flooding of the gym.
Theaters are probably watching extremely closely to see how the MoviePass model compares to a gym model. If there are a couple surge periods of use and then much longer periods of little use which would indicate major profitability possibilities in the subscription then we may see them start rolling out their own in house subscription models.
But I mean the theatres know movie pass makes all its money selling data ala Cambridge analytica, and the carrot of movies is just the incentive to allow them to harvest everything off your phone and resell it.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
I go to movies I would never have gone to without MoviePass, or go to see some movies twice or a third time if I like them (saw Phantom Thread about a half dozen times because... why not?). There's no way I'm alone in that.
- jindianajonz
- Jindiana Jonz Abrams
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm
Re: MoviePass
You can see the same movie multiple times? I thought it was disallowed, so I never tried.
- DarkImbecile
- Ask me about my visible cat breasts
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Re: MoviePass
Yeah, I almost never saw movies more than once in the theater before MoviePass, and though I already went to the movies more than 95-99% of people without it, I’m seeing about half again as many now.mfunk9786 wrote:I go to movies I would never have gone to without MoviePass, or go to see some movies twice or a third time if I like them (saw Phantom Thread about a half dozen times because... why not?). There's no way I'm alone in that.
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: MoviePass
I believe they initially disallowed that, but have since dropped that limitation.jindianajonz wrote:You can see the same movie multiple times? I thought it was disallowed, so I never tried.
- Fiery Angel
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:59 pm
Re: MoviePass
Why would it be disallowed?jindianajonz wrote:You can see the same movie multiple times? I thought it was disallowed, so I never tried.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
MoviePass
sure there are always outliers in any system. some people go to the gym fourteen times a week but would not go that often if they were on a pay per use model instead of a subscription model.mfunk9786 wrote:I go to movies I would never have gone to without MoviePass, or go to see some movies twice or a third time if I like them (saw Phantom Thread about a half dozen times because... why not?). There's no way I'm alone in that.
But again it’s beside the point, the model doesn’t have to be profitable because it’s all about data harvesting for resale.
I am actually signing up for it today to use it over the summer. My wife doesn’t want to see anything, but I want to see several. It seems too much a hassle to bother for two people and most theatres we go to are all assigned seating and we have to pre plan all movie theatre outings so usually buy our seats three or four days in advance.
There are a lot of people for whom the numerous added frictions of making a movie pass subscription work for couples or families aren’t worth the hassle of engaging in, particularly as welcome advances in moviegoing like assigned seating and buying tickets online in advance have made the experience so much easier and better.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: MoviePass
It used to be one of the weird rules MoviePass was trying out, you could only see any given movie once. That was prior to this steep price drop and their rapid adoption of new customers.Fiery Angel wrote:Why would it be disallowed?jindianajonz wrote:You can see the same movie multiple times? I thought it was disallowed, so I never tried.
I do look forward to what I hope is the inevitable addition of advance ticketing support within the MoviePass app. We only have one theater nearby that supports it, a Studio Movie Grill, and LQ in particular detests seeing films with the lingering smell of ketchup in the air.movielocke wrote:particularly as welcome advances in moviegoing like assigned seating and buying tickets online in advance have made the experience so much easier and better.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: MoviePass
Hear hear. Surprisingly few people are bothered by the smell of ketchup but I've always thought it was unpleasant. That bulk ketchup at the theater is the worst.mfunk9786 wrote:I do look forward to what I hope is the inevitable addition of advance ticketing support within the MoviePass app. We only have one theater nearby that supports it, a Studio Movie Grill, and LQ in particular detests seeing films with the lingering smell of ketchup in the air.