If you scroll back to page 4 of this thread you will find discussion of this issue, but not agreement. The length depends on the projection speed, and Huppertz's score called for a projection speed of 25-27 fps, which was fast for the silent era. One reviewer who saw the premiere complained that the film ran 2 1/2 hours. I have seen the printed program for the subsequent run of 'Metropolis' at UFA-Pavillon at Nollendorf Platz, where it ran until 13 May 1927, before the film was cut, and the showtimes were spaced three hours apart, which means the film could not have been 3 1/2 hours long.triodelover wrote:I'm confused about the length of the new restoration. I've seen references to the addition of approximately 30 minutes over previous editions as a result of the Argentinian discoveries. The download of the Arte I have runs 2h32m, including an introduction of the film and the orchestra. (I haven't watched it all, yet.) The current MoC runs 1h58m, so all of that seems to jibe. Yet elsewhere I read that this restoration brings the film up to its original length of 3h31m. Can anyone clarify?
Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
- markhax
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
- marknyc5
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
The film as broadcast ran 2 hours and 25 minutes. As noted above, there are still some sections missing, so the original running time was about 2 and a half hours, if it was shown at 24 fps. I'm still not convinced it premiered at that speed, but many feel it did.
- triodelover
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Thanks to both the marks. I had forgotten the discussion of a couple of years back (and Mr Wheeler, thankfully).
- marknyc5
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
I emailed Martin Koerber, who worked on the restoration, and here's his response:
"New Zealand was used to replace footage where needed, but the scene in the attic was nowhere, thus remains a title and nothing else, alas. Same for the monk in the cathedral."
"New Zealand was used to replace footage where needed, but the scene in the attic was nowhere, thus remains a title and nothing else, alas. Same for the monk in the cathedral."
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Sorry I was unclear, here let me quote someone else "Freder's fever dream mixes the false Maria's cabaret dance for the playboys of Metropolis, with Freder's own vision of the Seven Deadly Sins come to life. The monk from the cathedral stands over the end of Freder's sickbed, and in Freder's hallucination transforms into Slim and back again."Knappen wrote:I vaguely remember reading that the monk scene mentioned by Peacock was the only one missing from the Buenos Aires copy.
So that and the completely unsavable bit of the last reel would be all that's not included in the Arte print I would think.
Anyone? Is it as exciting as I imagine?
Last edited by Peacock on Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- TMDaines
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
So the Buenos Aires print wasn't used?marknyc5 wrote:I emailed Martin Koerber, who worked on the restoration, and here's his response:
"New Zealand was used to replace footage where needed, but the scene in the attic was nowhere, thus remains a title and nothing else, alas. Same for the monk in the cathedral."
- marknyc5
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
That's what happens - The Thin Man appears and transforms into the monk's clothes, but it's still Fritz Rasp. He says the same line as the monk and holds up the same Bible page about the Whore of Babylon. But the earlier scene of the monk in the Cathedral is missing.Peacock wrote:"The monk from the cathedral stands over the end of Freder's sickbed, and in Freder's hallucination transforms into Slim and back again."
No, that's where most of the footage comes from. The NZ print was only used for a few scenes.TMDaines wrote:So the Buenos Aires print wasn't used?
- Peacock
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
=P~Andi wrote:the statues in the cathedral began to dance and then turn into the serveants that are holding the dancefloor of machine-Maria in the Yoshiwara....
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Yes, the monk scene that the Thin-Man-as-Monk scene references is still missing, but as the screencaps show, the Thin Man as the monk is there in all its glory. Man, this thing is awesome.
- Tommaso
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Absolutely, and just in case anyone was wondering: you'll forget about that picture quality very soon once you see these images in context and in motion. Psychedelic is the right word indeed. Unbelievable what Fritz and Fritz could pull off together....
- nsps
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
In addition to the two scenes that are missing, there are a few more shots that are missing, especially during the climax. In those shots, none of the story is missing, so they just flash a black screen for a few frames whenever there's a gap. The climax is much more thrilling with what they added in—just a few shots here and there that they know are missing.
Also, a few scenes (or descriptions of scenes) are in slightly different order now, so maybe the script (censor papers?) they were going off in the older version was slightly different from the final cut.
Also, a few scenes (or descriptions of scenes) are in slightly different order now, so maybe the script (censor papers?) they were going off in the older version was slightly different from the final cut.
- aox
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
so what is still missing? Anything substantial? How many minutes all together are still missing?
- marknyc5
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
As I said, the monk's appearance at the beginning of Part 2, and the fight between Fredersen and Rotwang that leads to Maria's escape.aox wrote:so what is still missing? Anything substantial? How many minutes all together are still missing?
Less than 5 minutes.
- aox
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
we're almost there!!!
Check your closets and attics!
Check your closets and attics!
- nsps
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
And, as I wanted to make clear, a few shots from the ending are still missing, but they aren't substantial to the plot. So all that was left in their place was black cards to denote that something was missing. There may have been some spots earlier as well, but the moments that I remember are from the climax.marknyc5 wrote:As I said, the monk's appearance at the beginning of Part 2, and the fight between Fredersen and Rotwang that leads to Maria's escape.aox wrote:so what is still missing? Anything substantial? How many minutes all together are still missing?
Less than 5 minutes.
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Oh, dammit! I put my footage out for the recyclers last week. I though they had everything!aox wrote:we're almost there!!!
Check your closets and attics!
Seriously, that we're now in a position to view this film (flawed though it may be) in so very nearly what Lang originally intended just continues to flummox me. Back in 2001 (could it really have been that long ago?), when I interviewed Martin Koerber for Filmfax he stated categorically that the restoration that had recently been accomplished was all we would ever see. The destruction of negatives and positives (to reclaim the silver) had been thouroughly documented down to the last frame (apparently there are memos in the Ufa files kvetching that the studio had spent millions on the film and only had X number of marks to show for it from that silver reclamation). There was no more of Metropolis - not no way, not no how. (I don't write this to embarass Mr. Koerber, but to explain just why this turn of events reamins so astonishing to me.)
BTW, has it ever been determined just how this non-35mm version of the nigh-complete film came about? Normally such reductions weren't made until well after a movie has had some success and some shot at having successful sales on the home market. The truncating of Metropolis began within a week or so of its premiere, if I recall correctly. This 9.5mm (or 8 or 16 - I've read it described as all three) print in South America, by rights, shouldn't even exist, should it?
- Tommaso
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
If I understand the story correctly, it went like this: An Argentinian entreprenuer saw the film at its premiere in Berlin, was amazed by it, and immediately bought a 35mm-copy for exhibition in Buenos Aires before the film was shortened. And exhibited it was, so much so that it began to look as scratched and damaged as we know it now. From this copy the 9.5mm-print was taken at a later stage. How this print came to the institute where it was found about 80 years later seems not entirely clear.
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Somewhat like that yeah. Let me try to remember what they said in the ARTE documentary. Yes, an Argentinian theatre owner bought a 35mm-copy right after a/the premiere (I thought it was in Vienna though). After being used for a while this print somehow landed in the hands of a private Argentinian collector. Apparently he, contrary to most collectors, welcomed everyone who wanted to use his copy and so it was used again and again, resulting in the damage we now face. Because of some of the usual reasons (can't remember, probably the danger and costs of storing the 35-mm) it was copied over to 16mm without proper cleaning in the 70s and the 35mm was destroyed. It remained in that collection which was moved to the archive where it was now found. I think they inherited it from the collector but I'm not sure anymore. Apparently some guy had a hunch for 15(!) years that a full copy of Metropolis might be in that collection. Why he didn't actually check earlier is a mystery they didn't resolve in the documentary.Tommaso wrote:If I understand the story correctly, it went like this: An Argentinian entreprenuer saw the film at its premiere in Berlin, was amazed by it, and immediately bought a 35mm-copy for exhibition in Buenos Aires before the film was shortened. And exhibited it was, so much so that it began to look as scratched and damaged as we know it now. From this copy the 9.5mm-print was taken at a later stage. How this print came to the institute where it was found about 80 years later seems not entirely clear.
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Wow.Tommaso wrote:If I understand the story correctly, it went like this: An Argentinian entreprenuer saw the film at its premiere in Berlin, was amazed by it, and immediately bought a 35mm-copy for exhibition in Buenos Aires before the film was shortened. And exhibited it was, so much so that it began to look as scratched and damaged as we know it now. From this copy the 9.5mm-print was taken at a later stage. How this print came to the institute where it was found about 80 years later seems not entirely clear.
So apparently those Ufa memos were not exactly accurate as to accounting for all negative & positive materials...
- markhax
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Here's the English version of the original story in DIE ZEIT, when the discovery became public:Tommaso wrote:If I understand the story correctly, it went like this: An Argentinian entreprenuer saw the film at its premiere in Berlin, was amazed by it, and immediately bought a 35mm-copy for exhibition in Buenos Aires before the film was shortened. And exhibited it was, so much so that it began to look as scratched and damaged as we know it now. From this copy the 9.5mm-print was taken at a later stage. How this print came to the institute where it was found about 80 years later seems not entirely clear.
"ZEITmagazin has now reconstructed the story of how the film nevertheless managed to survive. Adolfo Z. Wilson, a man from Buenos Aires and head of the Terra film distribution company, arranged for a copy of the long version of “Metropolis†to be sent to Argentina in 1928 to show it in cinemas there. Shortly afterwards a film critic called Manuel Peña RodrÃguez came into possession of the reels and added them to his private collection. In the 1960s Peña RodrÃguez sold the film reels to Argentina’s National Art Fund – clearly nobody had yet realised the value of the reels. A copy of these reels passed into the collection of the Museo del Cine (Cinema Museum) in Buenos Aires in 1992, the curatorship of which was taken over by Paula Félix-Didier in January this year. Her ex-husband, director of the film department of the Museum of Latin American Art, first entertained the decisive suspicion: He had heard from the manager of a cinema club, who years before had been surprised by how long a screening of this film had taken. Together, Paula Félix-Didier and her ex-husband took a look at the film in her archive – and discovered the missing scenes.
"Paula Félix-Didier remembered having dinner with the German journalist Karen Naundorf and confided the secret to her. Félix-Didier wanted the news to be announced in Germany where Fritz Lang had worked – and she hoped that it would attract a greater level of attention in Germany than in Argentina. The author Karen Naundorf has worked for DIE ZEIT for five years - and let the editorial office of ZEITmagazin in on her knowledge."
I found a link to a long (12-minute) audio clip by Karen Naundorf (in German) on the history of the film and its discovery. http://www.geo.de/GEO/reisen/fernziele/57669.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It has a lot of interesting detail. The museum, Museo del Cine, is dirt poor and has been closed for four years. It has 60,000 films, so one can only wonder if there are other treasures lurking there.
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
A few questions:
1. Do we now understand that the 'badly-damaged' part of the Argentine film was NOT the first Monk scene and that this wasn't present at all?
2. ** SPOILER ** Why does Fredersen tell Grot to open the gate to the Heart Machine? Perhaps Pollock wasn't entirely wrong, this bit is illogical (Fredersen catches the workers holding a union meeting so he decides to kill their children and destroy Metropolis to teach them a lesson).
3. Is the Pollocked version now a historical artifact in its own right? After all, it is this version that was seen by Hitler and H G Wells and declared a World treasure
I can't see why in the future the quality of some of the new images cannot be improved once the algorithms and processing power (and money) are there to do it. There is a lot of redundancy of information in the film as a whole, Fredersen wears the same clothes throughout and we know what Brigitte Helm looks like when she screams. I believe there is a production still of the Hel statue and we know the physical characteristics of the curtain in front of it.
1. Do we now understand that the 'badly-damaged' part of the Argentine film was NOT the first Monk scene and that this wasn't present at all?
2. ** SPOILER ** Why does Fredersen tell Grot to open the gate to the Heart Machine? Perhaps Pollock wasn't entirely wrong, this bit is illogical (Fredersen catches the workers holding a union meeting so he decides to kill their children and destroy Metropolis to teach them a lesson).
3. Is the Pollocked version now a historical artifact in its own right? After all, it is this version that was seen by Hitler and H G Wells and declared a World treasure
I can't see why in the future the quality of some of the new images cannot be improved once the algorithms and processing power (and money) are there to do it. There is a lot of redundancy of information in the film as a whole, Fredersen wears the same clothes throughout and we know what Brigitte Helm looks like when she screams. I believe there is a production still of the Hel statue and we know the physical characteristics of the curtain in front of it.
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
There was footage showing its archive in the ARTE documentary. It was quite a lot of material. I'd bet serious money there are other lost films in there.markhax wrote:It has 60,000 films, so one can only wonder if there are other treasures lurking there.
- perkizitore
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Someone needs to create a charity for finding lost films, i would be happy giving 10£ a month
- marknyc5
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Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)
Here's the note I got from Koerber regarding further restoration:
"I am also very pleased with the result, under the circumstances. One more year of software developent and perhaps one could kill the damage in the Argentine version - however given the schedule this was not possible."
Do people really think so? I think any futher clean up would have to be a frame-by-frame repainting - prohibitively expensive.
"I am also very pleased with the result, under the circumstances. One more year of software developent and perhaps one could kill the damage in the Argentine version - however given the schedule this was not possible."
Do people really think so? I think any futher clean up would have to be a frame-by-frame repainting - prohibitively expensive.