Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#151 Post by tenia » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:13 pm

nitin wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:21 am
What creative dead end?
mfunk9786 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:01 pm
It's a childish way of thinking about just about anything, but it's an especially childish way to be thinking about blockbuster movies, an artform that literally exists to show you something you can't see anywhere else.
Remember : I never took TLJ for anything original, and instead found it like TFA incapable of moving away from the OT's heritage. TLJ thus never offered to me something that I "couldn't see elsewhere" (mostly since I had already seen ESB and, well, TLJ looked a lot like it).
The issue with it thus never lied, to me, in not doing fan service. I don't care for fan service and couldn't care less about it. The issue was that Johnson wasn't doing a stand alone movie but doing a sequel he steered it TOO far away from the previous installment AND in such a poor fashion that 1) good luck keeping the whole thing consistent and 2) good luck with fans being happy with the "new" propositions considering how they were offered.


This being written, indeed, this 3rd finale makes for a completely Frankensteinian trilogy with a Frankenseinian finale. It tries so hard to do so many things that simply can't be all done properly in only one installment, it actually does look like a movie written by a 6yo on speed with no limit about the ideas he can cram in. It's exhaustive and numbing, but it also highlights how little the new trilogy had to offer to begin with and how it seems impossible for it to ever move away from the original trilogy and its characters. It's so bent on going full throttle it speeds through every thing it can, from characters to plot to twists to battles to space chases to face-offs, never taking any time for stitching the pieces together (I guess viewers will do that themselves), reminding to TV shows that had tons of useless boring episodes but arrive towards the end of the season and must absolutely catch back.
It does however manage to find the time instead not only to dismiss the previous movie but also pretty much pissing on its grave. I get that you want to make sure TLJ haters get their payback, but that's a tad superfluous and actually quite silly. But still, while it's a much more interesting movie than TLJ, it also quickly runs on fumes and I guess asserts in a definitive fashion the whole movie never had a lot to say to begin with.
Instead, we get another bunch of very convenient Force-magic, a few historical figures making pointless comebacks, but also again huge riffs from OT : TFA was Ep 4, TLJ Ep 5, so guess what Rise of Skywalker is ? The whole movie ends up being quite predictable, but it doesn't help that it keeps on resorting to fake suspense. Are we really supposed to believe a main character will die 90 minutes before the end of the movie ? Multiple times through the movie ?

Technically speaking, TLJ offered beautiful shots, but also awful CGI at times. RoS avoids the problematic CGIs but is pretty much pedestrian (and sometimes worse) when it comes to battle readability. Like the whole movie, they simply feel rushed, and no matter how many of them (IIRC, by 20 minutes, there was already 2 space pursuits and 1 combat on-foot), by the end of the movie, none leaves any mark. There's no sense of epic, no emotion, and even the climax has no time for it. There's no time for anything, no matter how much show the movie is putting on the screen.

It's hard any way in the end to make much sense of all this. I'm not sure, as said above, going into what Johnson paved would have yielded an interesting result considering how empty and lifeless his sequel was, but it's hard not to believe in a much better halfway compromise than trying to erase it and do a whole trilogy again in one movie only. The end result makes me wonder who the hell was helming this whole freak show, considering how inconsistent it ends up being as a trilogy, but I think that as an industrial product, it will make for a fascinating case study over the years.

One absolutely positive takeaway from it : Driver definitely got the best character in the whole thing, and totally delivers. Sadly, RoS seemed like Ridley lethal misstep to me, both in terms of character and acting.

All in all : not bad, just totally forgettable.

5.5/10
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And I was of course totally right : Rey ends up being someone very important and of course she is of someone lineage : she's Palpatine great-daughter, hence his shoehorned comeback. This allows for a quite obvious RotJ rip-off in which Rey is facing Palpatine and he tries to convert her to the Dark Side by showing her the Rebels losing an on-going space battle. Yes, RoS is THAT imaginative. The whole climax actually is so predictable it's not even funny trying to guess what will happen since it's so easy. About 45 minutes before, it's all given away by the movie, and the whole RotJ rip-off only makes it that easier still. The way it manages though to cram roughly a dozen predictable twists in a single end battle is astounding though. It's as if the movie is trying to beat you numb.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#152 Post by R0lf » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:03 pm

^^ It’s Marvel/AVENGERS type filmmaking applied to STAR WARS.

I think RISE OF SKYWALKER is still objectively better than something like INFINITY WAR or ENDGAME. It mystifies me that there seems to be an internet pile on for this doing something equally as dense and confectionery as what people lap up in those films while applying absolutely no criticism at all.
swo17 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:29 pm
I just feel really gross giving Disney any money at this point (especially given this latest doozy)
Well asides from the fact they don’t pay a living wage to employees or their fair share of tax? I feel zero guilt pirating from Disney: they can have my money for those things when they stop stealing from society.

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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#153 Post by Luke M » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:34 pm

I thought Endgame was fairly bad and I like the Marvel movies more than not. So that's an interesting take and I hope I enjoy it.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#154 Post by bearcuborg » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:43 am

My god, that opening crawl...if the rest of this movie is this bad, they should have just said “fuck you” to the fanboys/haters/trolls and let Rian finish the damn thing.

My fingers are crossed for my screening tomorrow, but my glass for Episode 9 was half empty the moment Carrie passed away. To have lost out on a scene with her and Adam Driver is goddamn tragic...a reunion of the big 3 from the OT be damned.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#155 Post by R0lf » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:10 am

I think Fisher would love what they did with her in this as it is one of the great stoner performances for the ages. People deliver full sentences to her and she moves back slightly *stares* then delivers a one word reply, like, “yeah” (combined with the Ed Wood level shots of her standing off side in a cape!).

Also
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the scene where she gives Rey the lightsaber they use the same footage again in the very next scene but in reverse when Rey gives the lightsaber back!
lol lol

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#156 Post by JamesF » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:54 am

The Carrie Fisher scenes are very Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid, and the film an uninspired rush job in general unfortunately. (Coming from someone who, after rewatching it last night, still maintains TLJ is the best one since Empire.)

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#157 Post by tenia » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:15 am

R0lf wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:10 am
I think Fisher would love what they did with her in this as it is one of the great stoner performances for the ages. People deliver full sentences to her and she moves back slightly *stares* then delivers a one word reply, like, “yeah” (combined with the Ed Wood level shots of her standing off side in a cape!).
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There's also the awful VG-ish scene of her Jedi training, in which the digital avatar (edit : fixed) there is so bad I have no idea who she was training with - Luke, I suppose - and almost didn't recognize her.
Last edited by tenia on Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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R0lf
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#158 Post by R0lf » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:20 am

I’m just going off one viewing but isn’t the training sequence reused footage?
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With the face reveal of Luke being from his training on Degobah and Leia being the much less convincing CG composite from ROGUE ONE?
Also
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when Han visits Kylo was that a CG shot too or did they use wacky de-aging Tom foolery around his eyes?

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#159 Post by Calvin » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:59 am

I laughed out loud at the opening crawl and things didn't get much better from there. It's a bad film, but more than that it's a bad film that goes out of its way to undermine its predecessor. Driver and Ridley do they best with what they've been given, but this is a film of sub-fanfiction level plotting that seems to have been designed to please a bunch of whinging internet manbabies that wouldn't have had any impact on the box office even if they somehow successfully coordinated a boycott.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#160 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 pm

This is an extraordinarily dull film. Dull, boring and unengaging. Our theater was dead. Nothing seemed to move the crowd. Nothing drew applause or cheers or whistles or gasps. Even Avengers 4 was better in that way. Because the crowd had a pulse in that one and actually lapped it up.

This all felt so perfunctory. There were no stakes of any kind I felt. Just an uninteresting plot hurtling towards inevitable 'revealations'. The entire thing felt pointless and weightless. Even more so than Avengers 4. Even that felt like it had more risks and imagination (and it had none).

The plot really is fanfiction. And the presentation is on the level of a fan film. I am of course never going to watch this film again. The best part is definitely John Williams' score. His new themes are lovely, memorable and beautiful. Though you could say the film doesn't do justice to the score.

Also the title makes no sense to me.

I think the gross is going to be lower than even star wars 8. I dunno if this is franchise killing. But it will definitely subdue enthusiasm. Star wars has now been productized and commercialized beyond all belief.
Last edited by Nasir007 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#161 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:14 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:12 pm
Star wars has now been productized and commercialized beyond all belief.
Image

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#162 Post by denti alligator » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:31 pm

I, for one, liked it well enough. For what it is, it’s quite good. I’d be curious to hear alternative plots that would do justice to the material/setup. This may be the best the material allows for.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#163 Post by Big Ben » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:32 pm

A good addendum to mfunk's post is that Star Wars, particularly Return of the Jedi had entire plot elements sculpted around the idea of selling toys to children. Lucas' greatest idea was getting rights to sell toys which has allowed him to amass a fortune of over six billion dollars (Not solely from toy sales but still.). The original drafts of Return of the Jedi had the possibility of Han Solo dying but that was nixed entirely because Lucas wanted to sell more toys. Luke was originally supposed to walk away into the sunset(s) with disillusionment that was nixed in favor of the more commercially viable song and dance on Endor's Moon. Oh and the Ewoks? Designed to be sold as toys. Star Wars has always a commercial brand taken to it's logical extreme. All Disney has done is adapted it to a modern age. And none of it would have been possible without it's creator wisely(?) foreseeing it's commercial value.
Last edited by Big Ben on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#164 Post by Nasir007 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:19 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:32 pm
A good addendum to mfunk's post is that Star Wars, particularly Return of the Jedi had entire plot elements sculpted around the idea of selling toys to children. Lucas' greatest idea was getting rights to sell toys which has allowed him to amass a fortune of over six billion dollars (Not solely from toy sales but still.). The original drafts of Return of the Jedi had the possibility of Han Solo dying but that was nixed entirely because Lucas wanted to sell more toys. Luke was originally supposed to walk away into the sunset(s) with disillusionment that was nixed in favor of the more commercially viable song and dance on Endor's Moon. Oh and the Ewoks? Designed to be sold as toys. Star Wars has always a commercial brand taken to it's logical extreme. All Disney has done is adapted it to a modern age. And none of it would have been possible without it's creator wisely(?) foreseeing it commercial value.
I agree with what you are saying. My observation is specially with regards to cinema. Of the main 9 star wars films, this is the first one that has felt so nakedly disposable to me (though my memory is admittedly vague on the first 6 films). I would even say there is some narrative merit in the prequels. Even in this trilogy, I think the first 2 were good films on their own terms. In fact 7 offered one of the memorable moments in blockbuster film-making in recent times. 8 is a controversial film but I would say for the most part it is an interesting film and takes genuine leaps. This is the first one which out of the 9 which feels entirely risible with nary a single memorable moment of any kind.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#165 Post by R0lf » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:29 pm

I think RISE OF SKYWALKER really feels like a meta commentary on film. In that we've had a decade of these truly awful films that made a billion dollars a pop and we still have the audiences who are hoodwinked into seeing them and then tie themselves in knots convincing people why they enjoyed them. This is like that slap in the face to that audience where someone has cynically made the perfect movie which caters to them "here is that type of movie you all love" and now they are having a meltdown over it.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#166 Post by Big Ben » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:47 pm

R0lf wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:29 pm
I think RISE OF SKYWALKER really feels like a meta commentary on film. In that we've had a decade of these truly awful films that made a billion dollars a pop and we still have the audiences who are hoodwinked into seeing them and then tie themselves in knots convincing people why they enjoyed them. This is like that slap in the face to that audience where someone has cynically made the perfect movie which caters to them "here is that type of movie you all love" and now they are having a meltdown over it.
Star Wars fans hate Star Wars more than anyone else in the world and seem to operate under a very strict idea of what "Star Wars" actually is as even when given exactly what they want they appear to not really care. Perhaps there's some high achieved from whining about it for years on end? I don't even know at this point as I would think the rational thing to do would be to avoid something that makes you deeply upset but lo and behold here we at the ass end of 2019 and I'm still seeing "Ruin Johnson posts". I shudder to think what the reaction to the Prequels would have been in this day and age.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#167 Post by denti alligator » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:58 pm

I’m invested in the films too little to fully care; and just enough to take what pleasures they offer for what they are. Part of the pleasure is nostalgic. Part of it is enjoying it with my child.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#168 Post by Finch » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:33 am

Wrap counts down the 20 Worst Parts of ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’

Wrap also argues that Ep 9 makes 8 and 7 retrospectively worse because of the Palpatine retcon

I feel even better now about never wanting to see Ep 9 in the first place. This is just appalling script writing.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#169 Post by tenia » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:38 am

Big Ben wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:32 pm
And none of it would have been possible without it's creator wisely(?) foreseeing it's commercial value.
Lucas was, IIRC, the first filmmaker to have a contract financially priorising a merch sales % over a cut on the movie's BO. I always found that to say a lot.
I don't think it's a problem though.
R0lf wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:29 pm
This is like that slap in the face to that audience where someone has cynically made the perfect movie which caters to them "here is that type of movie you all love" and now they are having a meltdown over it.
Like Suicide Squad for very different reasons, I had a hard time not thinking of Rise of Skywalker's content as a purely industrialo-marketing one. What's fascinating in the movie is how all the fabric stitches are so obviously showing, and I do think it'll make for an industrial case study in a few years.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#170 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:40 am

This article is way off base... only 18 or 19 of these criticisms are valid, and they didn’t even mention a few even worse moments.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#171 Post by Nasir007 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:42 am

Finch wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:33 am
Wrap counts down the 20 Worst Parts of ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’

Wrap also argues that Ep 9 makes 8 and 7 retrospectively worse because of

I feel even better now about never wanting to see Ep 9 in the first place. This is just appalling script writing.
The part I put in spoiler might be a spoiler. Not Palpatine's presence because that is in the trailer but
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the retcon
.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#172 Post by tenia » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:46 am

DarkImbecile wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:40 am
This article is way off base... only 18 or 19 of these criticisms are valid, and they didn’t even mention a few even worse moments.
There's always worse, and I guess you can't do a 57 worst parts of RoS to try and be exhaustive, but it definitely sums up many of the major issues in the movie's plotting direction and plot devices.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#173 Post by TheDudeAbides » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:57 pm

My biggest problem with this whole trilogy stems from a problem I attribute to Disney. Why not have one director or filmmaking team do the entire trilogy from beginning to end. The whole trilogy feels like disjointed piecework that seems to constantly retcon something done in the previous film that the current filmmaker didn't like. This film as a whole is fine; as are all of the trilogy when taken as a single entry, but it falls apart when you try to compare notes with films VII and VIII.

IMO Rise of Skywalker is better than The Last Jedi, but not Force Awakens (nor the best of the bunch, Empire and New Hope). I enjoyed the fact that Abrams didn't spend too much of the running time on distracting side plots that went nowhere (like the casino planet) and that Abrams stuck to focusing on it's core group of characters rather than trying to force in new leads that didn't quite stick the landing (I'm looking at you Rose).

As a whole I prefer this trilogy to the prequels, but it falls well short of the original trilogy.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#174 Post by movielocke » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:47 pm

I have never been in an opening night theatre for any blockbuster that was as dead and non reactive as what I experienced last night. After the opening music anthem Babo Frick got the only audience reaction. Everything else: No laughter. No cheers. No oohs. No ahhs. No applause. The experience was very close to seeing the film the film alone, rather than in a room full of people determined to try to like this (and all failing en masse).

I (perhaps fatefully) said at dinner before the movie that reading the reviews of cats had made me feel better about episode nine, because even if it was bad, there was no way it could be as bad as cats sounds from the reviews. But wow, it was as bad as cats sounds in the reviews!

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (J.J. Abrams, 2019)

#175 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:47 pm

My screening had a few appreciative hoots and gasps at a handful of moments, but
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when Adam Driver keeled over after bringing Daisy Ridley back to life, there was more laughter than at any other joke in the film, which was probably not the intended response.

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