Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional images)
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Your DVD compression looks as good as Blu-ray compression, David! If it wasn't for the pixel size, I'd guess these were BD grabs. You really are knocking out some of the best looking DVDs that I've seen. I'm sorry we didn't get to work together when I was at MoC - it's been a crazy year.
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Ah, that's too bad.
Thank you, but the only credit I can take is for careful treatment in the upstream stages, and for CCE Assist (which I really wrote to save my own time, I don't know if any other compressionists are using it). The guys in Japan at Cinema Craft deserve the credit for designing an encoder of this quality, that isn't confused by film grain and other random patterns.
I think there are parts of the "upcoming title" could pass for Blu-ray on television sized screens.
Thank you, but the only credit I can take is for careful treatment in the upstream stages, and for CCE Assist (which I really wrote to save my own time, I don't know if any other compressionists are using it). The guys in Japan at Cinema Craft deserve the credit for designing an encoder of this quality, that isn't confused by film grain and other random patterns.
I think there are parts of the "upcoming title" could pass for Blu-ray on television sized screens.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
I agree. Those caps look beautiful. (To the point where I'm tempted to offer up the heretical opinion that I'd much rather have a diligent DVD transfer like that, and rely on upscaling, than get a monkeyed-with Blu transfer, where you're saddled with somebody else's bad decisions.)peerpee wrote:Your DVD compression looks as good as Blu-ray compression, David! If it wasn't for the pixel size, I'd guess these were BD grabs. You really are knocking out some of the best looking DVDs that I've seen.
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Yes, resolution isn't everything. Freedom from artefacts is important too.
The other thing is, at this level of detail, the scaler being used is very important. When most DVDs have been lowpass filtered and are therefore defective by design when it comes to resolving full detail, there's probably not much impetus for chipset designers to do their best when it comes to upscaling. I've seen a lot of in-TV scalers that don't really do a good job of rendering crisp details. The HQV scaling solution found in a lot of high end amps and video processors is my favourite in this regard.
Of course, the better a scaler is at keeping high frequencies intact and crisp, the more mosquito noise will be visible in average MPEG video. All the more reason for the compressionist to avoid that appearing in the first place
The other thing is, at this level of detail, the scaler being used is very important. When most DVDs have been lowpass filtered and are therefore defective by design when it comes to resolving full detail, there's probably not much impetus for chipset designers to do their best when it comes to upscaling. I've seen a lot of in-TV scalers that don't really do a good job of rendering crisp details. The HQV scaling solution found in a lot of high end amps and video processors is my favourite in this regard.
Of course, the better a scaler is at keeping high frequencies intact and crisp, the more mosquito noise will be visible in average MPEG video. All the more reason for the compressionist to avoid that appearing in the first place
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- not perpee
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
I became aware of the Cinema Craft encoder in 2005 when we were working on our ONIBABA release, it became our encoder of choice from there on in. It's been around a while, and I'm guessing that it's been used by Criterion for a long time too - because they've been having great results from DVD for even longer.
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
With Criterion, I got the idea that the DVD work was done by various different freelance studios, rather than internally. I don't think I've ever seen a Criterion DVD that wasn't lowpass filtered though.
- perkizitore
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
- Location: OOP is the only answer
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Caps from Mr Bongo's Falstaff
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
The last one looks a bit soft, but overall that suggests something better than what we've gotten in the past.
- perkizitore
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
- Location: OOP is the only answer
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
The whole disc looks a bit soft!
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Certainly looks like it's been noise reduced with FFT3DFilter or something similar. And I see you used VLC, which AFAIK doesn't apply any processing gubbins (unless requested).
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
This is from a test pressing of Second Run's 2012 reissue of Mother Joan of the Angels, but it's a dual-layer DVD-R and it's likely to be identical to the final retail version. Grabs have been deliberately chosen to match this Beaver review of the original VHS-quality 2005 edition.
One compositional point is that the entire image appears to have been pulled down a fraction - i.e. there's a bit taken off the top of the frame, but a fair bit more visible at the bottom. But since the new restoration was supervised by original cinematographer Jerzy Wójcik (credited explicitly at the end) and God knows who approved the old analogue transfer, I'm more than happy to accept the new version as more authoritative.
One compositional point is that the entire image appears to have been pulled down a fraction - i.e. there's a bit taken off the top of the frame, but a fair bit more visible at the bottom. But since the new restoration was supervised by original cinematographer Jerzy Wójcik (credited explicitly at the end) and God knows who approved the old analogue transfer, I'm more than happy to accept the new version as more authoritative.
- Peacock
- Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:47 pm
- Location: Scotland
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Some of those caps look a bit soft (2+6), while others are fine?
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
That can't surely be what the compression on the disc is like? What did you use to take the grabs, perhaps it's heavily compressing the images?
EDIT: (Facepalm) I just realised that because I'm using a 3G connection, my mobile internet provider is squashing the quality of incoming images to reduce the bandwidth! So ignore my previous comments. That'll teach me to use the web outside on a sunny day!
EDIT: (Facepalm) I just realised that because I'm using a 3G connection, my mobile internet provider is squashing the quality of incoming images to reduce the bandwidth! So ignore my previous comments. That'll teach me to use the web outside on a sunny day!
Last edited by David M. on Thu May 03, 2012 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
The latest version of VLC, running on a MacBook - I've no idea what compression it applies and there doesn't seem to be a setting in preferences.
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
I'll take a look so we can solve the mystery!
Nothing like sitting in the middle of Glasgow in a sunny day with a laptop updating software
Nothing like sitting in the middle of Glasgow in a sunny day with a laptop updating software
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
I just checked it out. VLC grabs PNG images from the disc and re-scales them. It outputs a good representation of what's on the disc.
(Facepalm) I just realised that because I'm using a 3G connection, my mobile internet provider is squashing the quality of incoming images to reduce the bandwidth! So ignore my previous comments!
(Facepalm) I just realised that because I'm using a 3G connection, my mobile internet provider is squashing the quality of incoming images to reduce the bandwidth! So ignore my previous comments!
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Phew - I was seriously questioning my eyesight, monitor, computer and software for a minute there!
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Back home now with a proper connection.
It looks like they've decided to grain-reduce it. The edges remain sharp, but the textures look to be softened.
It looks like they've decided to grain-reduce it. The edges remain sharp, but the textures look to be softened.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Par for the course with Polish restorations - like the Italians, they do seem to be a tad fond of DNR.
But it's very safe to say that if you're happy with Second Run's Polish Classics box, Arrow's Ashes and Diamonds and Mr Bongo's The Saragossa Manuscript and The Hourglass Sanatorium, you'll be happy with this - the restorations were done by the same people on the same equipment at more or less the same time.
And if you've only seen Second Run's 2005 version, you'll be ecstatic!
But it's very safe to say that if you're happy with Second Run's Polish Classics box, Arrow's Ashes and Diamonds and Mr Bongo's The Saragossa Manuscript and The Hourglass Sanatorium, you'll be happy with this - the restorations were done by the same people on the same equipment at more or less the same time.
And if you've only seen Second Run's 2005 version, you'll be ecstatic!
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
It also looks like there is slightly more picture information on the right side of the frame as well. What a great updating of the previous edition!MichaelB wrote:One compositional point is that the entire image appears to have been pulled down a fraction - i.e. there's a bit taken off the top of the frame, but a fair bit more visible at the bottom. But since the new restoration was supervised by original cinematographer Jerzy Wójcik (credited explicitly at the end) and God knows who approved the old analogue transfer, I'm more than happy to accept the new version as more authoritative.
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:57 am
- Location: East Coast, USA
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
I bet I know what this is...David M. wrote:Ah, that's too bad.
Thank you, but the only credit I can take is for careful treatment in the upstream stages, and for CCE Assist (which I really wrote to save my own time, I don't know if any other compressionists are using it). The guys in Japan at Cinema Craft deserve the credit for designing an encoder of this quality, that isn't confused by film grain and other random patterns.
I think there are parts of the "upcoming title" could pass for Blu-ray on television sized screens.
I am very excited to see it. You might even say "obstinate"ly so, but only if you had your thesaurus nearby...
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
You can Count on Cinema Craft to push MPEG-2 to the limit!
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
DVD Beaver have posted slightly compressed (understandable given their need to save bandwidth), but overall very accurate screen grabs of Countess Perverse. Thumbs up to them for a job well done!
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film4/dvd_revi ... everse.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's some more from me. I did this one with CINEMA CRAFT SP3 (of course) and my own add-in utility which helps improve the compression quality, "CCE Assist".
Edit: disregard compression artefacts. Photobucket is now squishing the file sizes down.
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film4/dvd_revi ... everse.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's some more from me. I did this one with CINEMA CRAFT SP3 (of course) and my own add-in utility which helps improve the compression quality, "CCE Assist".
Edit: disregard compression artefacts. Photobucket is now squishing the file sizes down.
Last edited by David M. on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:57 am
- Location: East Coast, USA
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
The burning question, though, is: Does pubic hair present the same difficulties for a lowpass filer as a tweed jacket?
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 1:10 pm
Re: Screen Captures (5-6 per post + links to additional imag
Yes. Yes it does. No in-encoder de-pubing has been done.