UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

[Maltic]

Just out of curiosity, for problematic UHD's, does anyone else find that their display on a 1080 screen could be more forgiving due to the downsample? It's probably a case-by-case basis, but I'm wondering if crunching them down could actually mitigate flaws in their encode?

Don't the old screens mess up the colours? (Probably I'm dumb and there's an easy way around that.)

[hearthesilence]

I'm not sure, but I saw a UHD of The Adventures of Baron Munchausen at a friend's home setup that had what was clearly an old HDTV but a game console that read UHD's, and it looked "fine," like nothing amiss. It would've been too cumbersome to do a direct comparison but I just remember being impressed at how rich the grain looked and wondered if that's a result of crunching down an image that's in much higher resolution.

Also, I've run into my first UHD with freezing problems - halfway into the film the image began to break up then freeze. I checked the disc and I think I found the only possible culprit - not far from the edge of the disc, there's something that resembles a scratch, but it looks like it's mostly "inside" the transparent coat, as if it was scratched from the inside if that were possible. Perhaps it's actually a manufacturing defect? It's a full centimeter straight line that's perpendicular to the diameter of the disc, so it seems like the type of mark that would be problematic, but would the data near the edge of the disc correspond to the halfway point of a 90-minute film?

[nicolas]

I'm not sure, but I saw a UHD of The Adventures of Baron Munchausen at a friend's home setup that had what was clearly an old HDTV but a game console that read UHD's, and it looked "fine," like nothing amiss. It would've been too cumbersome to do a direct comparison but I just remember being impressed at how rich the grain looked and wondered if that's a result of crunching down an image that's in much higher resolution.

Also, I've run into my first UHD with freezing problems - halfway into the film the image began to break up then freeze. I checked the disc and I think I found the only possible culprit - not far from the edge of the disc, there's something that resembles a scratch, but it looks like it's mostly "inside" the transparent coat, as if it was scratched from the inside if that were possible. Perhaps it's actually a manufacturing defect? It's a full centimeter straight line that's perpendicular to the diameter of the disc, so it seems like the type of mark that would be problematic, but would the data near the edge of the disc correspond to the halfway point of a 90-minute film?

The freezing problem you encountered together with that particular scratch is a disc defect in most, if not all cases. I had the same with my Babylon UHD, which was made in Germany ironically and not Mexico, and a few Criterion discs as well. Despite the many surface scratches with Mexican discs, playback is usually fine. You said it correctly, these are deeper gorges that actually affect the data layer. I hope you get yours replaced - Paramount never replied to my inquiry.

[rrenault]

3. Punch-Drunk Love for a brilliant restoration and grade from an interpositive as requested by PTA, yet when watching, it feels like they used the negative. The difference to the Criterion is significant even though the same element was used. Bonus point for a fantastic Atmos presentation. Jon Brion’s score and the sound mix sounds absolutely amazing and is a definite step-up from a comparatively timid 5.1.

What explains contemporary celluloid diehards like Nolan and PTA insisting the UHDs of their films be sourced from an interpretive as opposed to the OCN?

[nicolas]

3. Punch-Drunk Love for a brilliant restoration and grade from an interpositive as requested by PTA, yet when watching, it feels like they used the negative. The difference to the Criterion is significant even though the same element was used. Bonus point for a fantastic Atmos presentation. Jon Brion’s score and the sound mix sounds absolutely amazing and is a definite step-up from a comparatively timid 5.1.

What explains contemporary celluloid diehards like Nolan and PTA insisting the UHDs of their films be sourced from an interpretive as opposed to the OCN?

In both cases, their preference is to finish their films photochemically, which means timing them according to printer lights and measured in the traditional stops as opposed to a DI which can obviously distort the traditional analogue nature of films to a near infinite degree. Their DI’s mimic what they signed off after the analogue timing, such as the “raised” blacks and the lack of excessively bright HDR for instance. As the OCN doesn’t contain timing, they insist on the next-best source that does, which is an interpositive. Also, they enjoy that the IP has more of a traditional film print look than the crisp OCNs. All of Nolan’s films until Interstellar were sourced from IPs for their UHDs.

[rrenault]

So I guess that just essentially means they feel OCN-sourced 4Ks of their films would simply be a little overkill.

Or that’s at least part of the equation.

[nicolas]

So I guess that just essentially means they feel OCN-sourced 4Ks of their films would simply be a little overkill.

Or that’s at least part of the equation.

Probably not overkill but less representative of what they consider faithful to their vision of how these films should look like on home video.
They know how OCN-sourced footage looks like and likely think it's too densely detailed and less palpably analogue.
If we go a step further, the often problematic encoding by labels like Kino or Criterion actually prove them right.
As IP scans show less detail and, depending on the quality of it, coarser grain, encoding is indeed easier for authoring houses.

Back to Nolan and PTA: They're fans of celluloid because of the special and unique way colors are represented on film compared to digital and due to them still enjoying the screening of 35mm prints.
For comparison, Nolan is a big fan of Topkapi by Jules Dassin. So far, only a horrible old digital master has been available for a long time as the previous restoration was photochemical one and Nolan consulted on it.
He screens 35mm dailies and the films he watches with his crew for preparation are all from prints, too.

[tenia]

I do seem to recall Nolan pretty much saying he prefers remasters sources from IPs because remasters sourced from OCNs don't really make sense from a film-stock theatrical point of view and gives to the picture a crisper aspect you wouldn't really get when projecting 35mm, and it always seemed to me that was pretty much it and color-timing wasn't part of the matter.

[onedimension]

Has anyone determined whether the UHD of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" releasing next week, with new cover art, is identical to the original release? I'd love to see them do a stealth fix to the issues with the first 4K disc.

[Finch]

Footloose 4K is not terrible.

[therewillbeblus]

Blood Simple listed as disappointing based on an early peak from the other forum, but reported strong by our own site admin.. are we waiting on more eyes for a verdict?

[nicolas]

Blood Simple listed as disappointing based on an early peak from the other forum, but reported strong by our own site admin.. are we waiting on more eyes for a verdict?

This is a case of some people (including myself) being bothered by the the encoding artifacts as hinted at in the screenshots that were posted on the other forum, see here: https://criterionforum.org/forum/viewto ... 06#p806006

HDR10 and DV comparison (nearly identical): https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=70

Based on his review, Chris didn’t think these were a bigger problem yet I’d still argue this is a disappointing release because of how sloppy the encoding was actually done. The grain shouldn’t ever look like it does in the caps.

[nicolas]

Received my SC UHD of One from the Heart today. First of all, the packaging is very beautiful with a slip cover that almost looks as gorgeous in reality as it does in the pictures. Secondly, the four discs (2x UHD-100 and 2x BD-50) are NOT stacked, instead they’re placed on individual hubs and secured very tightly. This is how all multi-disc releases should look like. No loose discs, no scratches!

The gorgeousness continues on disc with what I’m 100% certain are FiM / David M encodes on both UHDs. Evidence: SC intro logo before the copyright warning can be skipped, PCM 2.0 audio is the default, extras are on the UHDs and the image looks absolutely remarkable in every way.

Grain is very fine and so richly detailed. Colors are extraordinary and appropriately deep and lush. Without a doubt the best case scenario for the film. This applies to both cuts. HDR / DV is also included but, as usual, not listed on the back cover.

Audio sounds superb in both 2.0 and 5.1 from what I heard.

The Reprise cut is shorter than the original cut but apparently has other footage included. That cut starts with the SC logo, followed by a Zoetrope logo of the era. The theatrical cut starts with the SC logo, then a vintage Columbia Pictures logo, followed by the Zoetrope logo again. I feel like someone (certainly James Mockoski) made truly sure here that the films are presented as appropriately as possible.

Bonus materials look incredible as well with new featurettes with (unreleased?) footage from back then when the film was in production. Also, there is a Baz Luhrmann interview which runs 25 minutes and a restoration demonstration that compares the last 2003 restoration with the new one. I haven’t seen it in full but the improvements are immediately apparent.

After Peeping Tom and The Wages of Fear, this is the third undisputed highlight release of the year and really a testament to what physical media can and should be. Can’t wait to see this gorgeous-looking film for the first time as soon as possible!

[therewillbeblus]

It looks like Beau is Afraid has been released on UHD in several countries - any word on the quality of these releases? I expect A24 might release a special 4K package themselves at some point, but making assumptions on which films they choose to do that with feels like a lost cause

[nicolas]

It looks like Beau is Afraid has been released on UHD in several countries - any word on the quality of these releases? I expect A24 might release a special 4K package themselves at some point, but making assumptions on which films they choose to do that with feels like a lost cause

Can’t personally confirm anything but I read the German and French UHDs have severe encoding issues, which doesn’t surprise me when it comes to the German one. The Eagle UHD is certainly the best one but as usual with them, on screen text is likely translated into Italian. I can’t remember if there was anything of note in that regard. (I really dislike the film and turned it off after 30 minutes). Also, none of the UHDs has the film in Atmos - something A24 would surely remedy.

[therewillbeblus]

Thanks, nicolas! I figured there might be some chatter if there was a lauded version available

[mfunk9786]

Chiming in to say that the Punch-Drunk Love UHD finally delivers on all the empty Superbit promises of the DVD. It's incredibly strong, maybe the best use of HDR I've seen to date on a UHD disc. The sun and lens flares and shadows are just doing spectacular, stupendous things throughout.

Would say it alone is worth owning the Columbia Classics Vol. 4 set - but the whole thing is a knockout, really. High recommendation.

[ianthemovie]

I guess I missed this, but a few months ago Discotek announced a 4K edition of Belladonna of Sadness, which will hopefully improve upon the previous 4K edition by Anime Ltd. Release date is May 28.

- Cinelicious 4K transfer, with a new HDR grade; the colors are eyeball-searing.
- Our first UHD+BD combo release!
- Better compression than releases done elsewhere
- All new historical commentary by Mike Toole
- Subtitles freshly proofed
- Contains all the interviews from previous releases

[What A Disgrace]

Time to triple dip.

[nicolas]

CJ ENM released two limited 4K UHD editions of Bong Joon-ho’s Memories of Murder recently in Korea, one just in a Steelbook and the other one is the Steel housed in a Slip Case together with a booklet.

Audio
4K: Korean DTS-HD MA 7.1
BD: Korean DTS-HD MA 7.1, Korean DTS-HD MA 2.0
Subtitles (main feature only)
4K: Korean, English
BD: Korean, English
Special Features (no subtitles)
4K: -
BD: Making Films, Deleted Scenes, Interviews, Trailer

I bought my copy from this seller with free shipping and IOSS for EU: https://www.ebay.com/itm/166612814453. Packaging was very secure!

(For those interested, the packaging is very bland and the Steelbook looks awful and cheap in hand. I fortunately couldn’t care less about this due to the disc content but packaging collectors probably won’t recommend these editions as much).

The purchase was a bit of a gamble due to the imperfections with the 4K restoration, as seen on the Criterion BD with traces of DNR and the greenish hue which some considered revisionist compared to older versions. Whether these were more true to the original vision is unclear.

I have great news though: The UHD is fantastic and improves much more noticeably than I thought as the CJ master effectively dials down the "tint" to something much less strong and aggressive when compared to the Criterion BD. And all of this in SDR as well, so they definitely did a new grade over at CJ. (For the HDR or nothing crowd: Consider this a flop but I didn’t miss HDR. The film is low-contrast and bleach-bypassed by design. It looks exceptional in SDR).

UHD is a UHD-100 as noted above with English subtitles and 7.1 and 2.0 audio tracks. The latter doesn’t sound like a downmix after a brief listen but other people are better at judging this. The 7.1 feels equally good and natural without excessive alterations that scream "remix" in your face every few seconds.

The 4K master itself is good (not excellent) after the first couple of exterior scenes. These are DNR affected and were sourced from a higher-generation element, too and not the OCN as we’re seeing some black specks and dirt. Later, things look better but the grain doesn’t feel 100% natural to my eyes (I believe this has been discussed already). Still, I’m satisfied with what I got. It’s not the most beautiful master ever (most of Bong’s shot-on-film films fall under that category) but presented in a way that’s appropriate and certainly watchable. I wouldn’t go back to any older edition. The encoding is very good, too - much, much better than another terrible Criterion BD effort.
Even for that alone, I consider this a strong upgrade but the better balanced colors really make the difference!

As this is a limited edition, I’d say get this sooner than later. Who knows if / when the restoration returns to the US in 4K, and if it does, it’ll absolutely look just like the Criterion BD.

[Finch]

CJ ENM released two limited 4K UHD editions of Bong Joon-ho’s Memories of Murder recently in Korea, one just in a Steelbook and the other one is the Steel housed in a Slip Case together with a booklet.

nic, what's the encoding like on the BD? Is it English-friendly and sourced from the same restoration, too? I might get it in that case.

[nicolas]

CJ ENM released two limited 4K UHD editions of Bong Joon-ho’s Memories of Murder recently in Korea, one just in a Steelbook and the other one is the Steel housed in a Slip Case together with a booklet.

nic, what's the encoding like on the BD? Is it English-friendly and sourced from the same restoration, too? I might get it in that case.

The BD unfortunately wasn’t sourced from the new restoration, it’s the older, significantly more colorful master some claimed was the original one. I’ve never owned an old BD of the film but seeing this after looking at the 4K master that reflects the bleach bypass Bong did, I really doubt this was ever correct. Encoding is very good as well but keep in mind that the highlights are blown out in the master itself, so no encoding fault. You’d be buying the set for the UHD.

[Finch]

Appreciate the fast feedback. I have CJ's old BD from years ago and I still don't know when I'm going to be able to get a 4k TV and player so I think I'll hold off for the (hopefully?) inevitable standard edition of the UHD.

[M-A]

Yeah the Criterion blu-ray was the only one of the 4K master that had the green tint. I have the French 4K and it doesn't have it either. I do wonder how the encoding compares between the two 4Ks, though.

[nicolas]

Yeah the Criterion blu-ray was the only one of the 4K master that had the green tint. I have the French 4K and it doesn't have it either. I do wonder how the encoding compares between the two 4Ks, though.

I’ve looked at the JPG caps on BR.com and tried to compare with my disc and didn’t see a discernible difference. I guess they’re very similar all in all. The Jokers released some exceptional UHDs, particularly the Kenji Misumi set. I have their JSA UHD and it’s superb.