The Big Parade (Warner Bros. Blu-ray)

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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#1 Post by captveg » Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:14 pm

The Big Parade on 10/1/13

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#2 Post by felipe » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:03 pm

With a 64-page digibook and a documentary on Vidor! Can't wait to put my hands on it.

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jwd5275
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#3 Post by jwd5275 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:16 pm

My copy of Big Parade just arrived today. I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, but the booklet that comes with it has nearly 50 pages of Kevin Brownlow writing on the background of the film. We need to encourage Warners to do more releases like this and convince them that beyond the obvious need for these silents, there is an actual want from consumers. I would encourage anyone considering this purchase to do it and think of your purchase as another vote towards possible similar releases of Greed, The Crowd, The Wind...

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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#4 Post by Drucker » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:18 pm

jwd5275 wrote:My copy of Big Parade just arrived today. I didn't see this mentioned anywhere, but the booklet that comes with it has nearly 50 pages of Kevin Brownlow writing on the background of the film. We need to encourage Warners to do more releases like this and convince them that beyond the obvious need for these silents, there is an actual want from consumers. I would encourage anyone considering this purchase to do it and think of your purchase as another vote towards possible similar releases of Greed, The Crowd, The Wind...
The packaging is really great. Much better than the books that accompany, say, Citizen Kane or Mutiny On The Bounty. I caught a bit of what seemed like the restoration on TCM the other day and it looked wonderful, so I can't wait to watch the blu ray.

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Finch
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#5 Post by Finch » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:50 pm

The Brownlow piece is pretty good, agreed. The film itself is nothing to be sniffed at either and Carl Davis' score was pitch perfect, close to avant-garde, I thought, during some of the war scenes. Personally, I prefer William Wellman's Wings and especially Raymond Bernard's Wooden Crosses but I'm very grateful to WB to release this film in a fabulous-looking resto and better contextualising material (i.e. Brownlow essay) than I expected. God, I hope it sells so well they won't think twice about doing The Crowd next.

Jonathan S
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#6 Post by Jonathan S » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:52 am

Could anyone who actually has The Big Parade blu-ray confirm if it's region-free please?

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jegharfangetmigenmyg
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#7 Post by jegharfangetmigenmyg » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:57 am

Blu-ray.com about The Big Parade, including caps: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-P ... 54/#Review" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm joining the fingercrossing choir in hoping that The Crowd is next. Any indside news about that release?

jheez
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#8 Post by jheez » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:38 am

Jonathan S wrote:Could anyone who actually has The Big Parade blu-ray confirm if it's region-free please?
I can confirm regions a and b both work with this disc. It looks and sounds great. Everyone with a remote interest in silent film should support and buy this blu-ray.

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Drucker
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#9 Post by Drucker » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:39 am

Jonathan S wrote:Could anyone who actually has The Big Parade blu-ray confirm if it's region-free please?
Just confirmed it! You're good.

Jonathan S
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#10 Post by Jonathan S » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:29 am

Many thanks to you both. I expected it would be region-free, being Warner, though I wondered if the licensing of Davis' score would affect it. (I initially saw The Big Parade in the 1931 music & effects reissue, televised by the BBC several years before the 1985 Photoplay/Davis version.) I expect sales may increase with next year's big centenary...

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#11 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:43 am

This looks beautiful.
The Big Parade

felipe
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm

Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#12 Post by felipe » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:12 pm

Does the blu-ray include "The man who made the movies: King Vidor"?

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Gregory
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#13 Post by Gregory » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:24 pm

No, which is odd because that was announced as one of the bonus features a few months ago.

I'm surprised Warner hasn't been forced to recall the DVD (or maybe they have). There's apparently a sticker on the front promising a 64-page book, even though that's only included with the Blu-ray.

felipe
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#14 Post by felipe » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:13 am

Gregory wrote:No, which is odd because that was announced as one of the bonus features a few months ago.
Too bad, I had always hoped to watch that documentary. Could it be that they lost the rights to it on these past few months?

peerpee
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The Big Parade (Warner Bros. Blu-ray)

#15 Post by peerpee » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:38 pm

I thought the motion on THE BIG PARADE (Vidor, 1925) Blu-ray looked a bit suspect (choppy). Does anyone have a source for the film's original framerate?

imdb (pinch of salt, I know) says 24fps.

The Blu-ray is authored progressively (not interlaced, like Criterion have unfortunately plumped for on their non-24fps silents) but the frame cadence is all over the shop. I measured 5R1R4R4R1R (for the first 15 mins or so), then 5RR5R3R2R for a while, before settling on 5R5R5R5R. (A number refers to the number of consecutive unique frames, an R indicates a repeat frame). What's that all about? Was the film shot at multiple framerates?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#16 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:22 pm

I'm a little confused by your measurments. If this is a 1080p/24 disc then surely each second requires 24 frames total? Your first two measurements only amount to 20 frames (15 unique, 5 repeat). Only your final measurement is 24fps (20 unique, 4 repeat). How is that possible? Can a Blu-ray be both interlaced and progressive at different points?

peerpee
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#17 Post by peerpee » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:56 pm

It's not at all interlaced (not one single frame has lines).

The patterns I measured are what loops. I have no idea why some add up to 20 and some add up to 24, but the ones that add up to 20 will simply fill the 24p nature of the Blu with the next 4 frames of the loop. I can't understand any of it.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#18 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:13 pm

That sounds idiotic. The first 3 seconds must look something like this:

5R1R4R4R1R4
1R1R4R4R1R5R1R
4R4R1R5R1R4

What a mess!

peerpee
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#19 Post by peerpee » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Aye, hence the choppiness to the motion, which I'm very attuned to having mucked around with lots of experiments in this area. It's not horrendous, and most people probably wouldn't notice it, but I was shocked when I worked out the various cadences, because it could probably look a tad better than it does (for the first 15 minutes anyhow). I'd love to find out why it's like it is.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#20 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:35 pm

Well if it was done in an attempt to preserve various frame rates it doesn't look like they've done a very good job of it.

I'd put my money on that the film is supposed to play 5R5R5R5R throughout but someone messed it up.

lefeufollet
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#21 Post by lefeufollet » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:43 pm

peerpee wrote:What's that all about? Was the film shot at multiple framerates?
I recall reading an interview (perhaps from American Cinematographer) with John Arnold where he lamented the very tight shooting schedule on The Big Parade, as several sequences fell short of his personal standards. I wonder if this could have resulted in an unintended framerate discrepancy in the film.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#22 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:24 pm

peerpee wrote:...It's not horrendous, and most people probably wouldn't notice it, but I was shocked when I worked out the various cadences, because it could probably look a tad better than it does (for the first 15 minutes anyhow)...
The choppiness was quite noticeable to me when the film played on TCM a number of weeks back, especially during any kind of lateral camera movement. I had assumed this was due to the decision to repeat frames to compensate for an original frame-rate of less than 24 fps, but the result was more distracting than with any other silent film I've seen broadcast or on Blu-ray.

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zedz
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Re: Warner Catalog Titles on Blu

#23 Post by zedz » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:06 pm

peerpee wrote:What's that all about? Was the film shot at multiple framerates?
However it was shot, it surely wasn't intended to be projected at multiple framerates. Those cadences you identified seem like they'd look odd even if they were consistent throughout the film.

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david hare
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Re: The Big Parade (Warner Bros. Blu-ray)

#24 Post by david hare » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:53 pm

This is one of only eight discs I can currently access in our new home in Wellington (at least until I can unpack the 38 boxes of the rest on the weekend after I get shelving delivered.) So I queue jumped it over even the Rossellini/Bergman boxset given Nick's comments.

What I am seeing was almost five minutes of straight opening seemingly unaffected by odd cadencing or the effects described, although to be fair the entire opening sequence is literally a long establishing montage piece and the entirely static shots with barely any movement don't really lend themselves to "tearing" etc. But just before the end of Chapter 1 and all through to chapter 3, in other words from 5 minutes approx to somewhere over 15 minutes, the image displays the worst jerkiness I've seen in years, and frankly looks to me precisely like old fashioned step printing which used to be performed like bad surgery for decades by well intentioned but incompetent "preservationists" to enable standardized frame rate projection of silents with low or variable originally hand cranked filming. I don't have anything like Nick's technical apparatus to analyze the image but it is worse even than the Arte 720 HD version of Epstein's Finis Terrae which looks stepped for its entire length. I find the latter unwatchable, and I am dreading what will turn up next on the Warner disc. This is just a crying shame given the astonishingly beautiful negative and transfer work.

Does it stay this bad?

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tenia
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Re: The Big Parade (Warner Bros. Blu-ray)

#25 Post by tenia » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:36 am

I noticed it especially during the war sequence in the woods. The soldiers movements are visibly affected by the choppiness, so it means that it stays visible far away in the movie (the sequence is around 1h50-2hr, I think).
However, I found it far from being unwatchable, but I'm no expert when it comes to choppiness on silent movies.

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