If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
- perkizitore
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
- Location: OOP is the only answer
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
- ianthemovie
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:51 am
- Location: Boston, MA
- Contact:
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
They're currently going for ~$35 on eBay.perkizitore wrote:If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
- Location: New England
- Contact:
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
It doesn't look like you can pick this as selection (for one's initial batch at least) even if one joins the club...perkizitore wrote:If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
usually it takes about 60-90 days post release for these titles to become available as an enrollment selection.Michael Kerpan wrote:It doesn't look like you can pick this as selection (for one's initial batch at least) even if one joins the club...perkizitore wrote:If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
I wouldn’t expect prices to dip much below $35. Club price is I think 24.99 plus four or five bucks shipping and handling (to original purchaser) plus tax, plus new shipping when they sell it to you So most resellers will have a hefty overhead on this title and can’t expect to make money unless the price is at least thirty five.
Now you could get your “unit” price down by reselling all the enrollment titles, and maximizing the volume you buy of three caballeros as fulfillment selections, for instance if they have a free shipping sale or a Buy one get half off sale, you could wind up with three to six copies of caballeros to resell and have a lower unit cost.
But if Disney realizes that they’re selling tons of orders with multiple copies to feed the resale beast, they’ll probably just put it out in stores.
Now you could get your “unit” price down by reselling all the enrollment titles, and maximizing the volume you buy of three caballeros as fulfillment selections, for instance if they have a free shipping sale or a Buy one get half off sale, you could wind up with three to six copies of caballeros to resell and have a lower unit cost.
But if Disney realizes that they’re selling tons of orders with multiple copies to feed the resale beast, they’ll probably just put it out in stores.
- JamesF
- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:36 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
This side-by-side comparison of a fan-made scan of a 35mm print of Cinderella and the Blu-Ray has provoked some interesting discussions on Twitter recently, including from Matt Zoller Seitz and our own peerpee. I’m not sure I can link to the forum where the fan restoration is being discussed and funding for it solicited, but needless to say if you’re a Star Wars fan, you may already be familiar with it.
- Adam X
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Yeah, sadly Disney seem intent on ensuring all their older animated films look as if they never saw a frame of celluloid.
-
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:31 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
What a travesty. All of the layers of cels that were drafted by teams of lead animators and in-betweeners and carefully photographed
through multiplane cameras can be eradicated by a digital technician on a whim. At least Disney has done an optimal job of protecting
their original camera negatives, so hopefully their oeuvre can be enjoyed again in their true forms.
through multiplane cameras can be eradicated by a digital technician on a whim. At least Disney has done an optimal job of protecting
their original camera negatives, so hopefully their oeuvre can be enjoyed again in their true forms.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Last year I went to the anniversary restoration premiere in 4k at the el capitan of "the many adventures of winnie the pooh" the delicate colors and structure of the watercolors and line work was fully intact, in fact I was sort of blown away at how complex the watercolor patterns and backgrounds were, the trees for example have bark that is full of subtle gradations between a wide array of colors. Having seen it innumerable times on VHS and DVD, I knew I'd never seen that level of detail and brush complexity in the film before.
Then a few months ago, a couple months after we got our sony 4K TV, winnie the pooh, the original DVD issue, wound up in the bluray player on the new TV, and lo and behold, I noticed the same unseen subtleties in the tree coloration as before. Having seen the film recently many times on our old Panasonic Plasma, I knew that it played back much muddier, less detailed, and lacking those fine color gradations. But there it was as clear as day in the upscale on the Sony TV.
So, one, it seems Disney is not necessarily just using a paint bucket restoration on every frame of every film. two, monitor representation may not be reflective of the actual encode. Three, I probably have a lot of false attribution going on, it took seeing the film in 4k on a big screen to notice some details I'd never seen before, and then when I looked for those same details on the DVD, discovered they were in fact there, I probably just had never had my eye drawn to them before.
The cinderella is a fairly outrageous representation, how do we know for certain that this was not someone with an agenda, adding a bit of their own photoshop fakery to the bluray image to try to bolster their case? Has anyone found that exact frame and compared it to a VHS or LD source or a 35 or 16mm source, it would be a good way to see if people are being scammed by the outrage machinery of the internet. And the post above me says it's comparing a 35mm scan to the bluray, but I don't see anyone claiming that anywhere in the twitter thread, that comment is only made here.
and even a vintage 35mm scan isn't going to be necessarily authoritative in regards to color, because it would have been color timed for prints with the expectation it would use a carbon arc projection color temperature, vs the xenon lamp that a modern print would be timed for, and presumably a film scanner would be set for. You could easily deliberately or inadvertantly make a lot of very bad claims about color manipulation simply by representing via a modern-timed image harvest an image that was timed for vintage equipment. This is all beside the point of the weird corporate preferences of the thirties and forties forced on hollywood by the dictates of technicolor and Nathalie Kalmus, decisions that may have been overridden when new prints were struck by people like Disney, perhaps quite rightly, once the technicolor corporate influence had waned.
In any event, Disney has access to extremely well preserved original elements, as well as accompanying documentation of all their feature films. There are color charts to any of the classic Disney films that say "use precisely this color mix for this color, and here is the scale of how that paint color will change for each lighting condition this color may pass through, since a different shade of paint would have to be mixed for each lighting condition. The coherence of the entire film was at stake, so such charts were thorough and meticulous. Disney has all these resources and many more and does in fact access them when restoring film elements.
yes they also do paint over work, but one only has to look at the pinocchio bluray up close (for example) to see there is still in fact pretty fine film grain throughout the image, as well as you're able to discern brushstrokes if you look for them. So I think the representation of the paint over work on the special features that disney has put out claim that every frame has been reanimated in the computer, may be a promotional exaggeration, and it is much more likely that some problematic scenes have been repaired this way and it's been blown out of proportion in the process of selling the restoration as a really big impressive deal.
Then a few months ago, a couple months after we got our sony 4K TV, winnie the pooh, the original DVD issue, wound up in the bluray player on the new TV, and lo and behold, I noticed the same unseen subtleties in the tree coloration as before. Having seen the film recently many times on our old Panasonic Plasma, I knew that it played back much muddier, less detailed, and lacking those fine color gradations. But there it was as clear as day in the upscale on the Sony TV.
So, one, it seems Disney is not necessarily just using a paint bucket restoration on every frame of every film. two, monitor representation may not be reflective of the actual encode. Three, I probably have a lot of false attribution going on, it took seeing the film in 4k on a big screen to notice some details I'd never seen before, and then when I looked for those same details on the DVD, discovered they were in fact there, I probably just had never had my eye drawn to them before.
The cinderella is a fairly outrageous representation, how do we know for certain that this was not someone with an agenda, adding a bit of their own photoshop fakery to the bluray image to try to bolster their case? Has anyone found that exact frame and compared it to a VHS or LD source or a 35 or 16mm source, it would be a good way to see if people are being scammed by the outrage machinery of the internet. And the post above me says it's comparing a 35mm scan to the bluray, but I don't see anyone claiming that anywhere in the twitter thread, that comment is only made here.
and even a vintage 35mm scan isn't going to be necessarily authoritative in regards to color, because it would have been color timed for prints with the expectation it would use a carbon arc projection color temperature, vs the xenon lamp that a modern print would be timed for, and presumably a film scanner would be set for. You could easily deliberately or inadvertantly make a lot of very bad claims about color manipulation simply by representing via a modern-timed image harvest an image that was timed for vintage equipment. This is all beside the point of the weird corporate preferences of the thirties and forties forced on hollywood by the dictates of technicolor and Nathalie Kalmus, decisions that may have been overridden when new prints were struck by people like Disney, perhaps quite rightly, once the technicolor corporate influence had waned.
In any event, Disney has access to extremely well preserved original elements, as well as accompanying documentation of all their feature films. There are color charts to any of the classic Disney films that say "use precisely this color mix for this color, and here is the scale of how that paint color will change for each lighting condition this color may pass through, since a different shade of paint would have to be mixed for each lighting condition. The coherence of the entire film was at stake, so such charts were thorough and meticulous. Disney has all these resources and many more and does in fact access them when restoring film elements.
yes they also do paint over work, but one only has to look at the pinocchio bluray up close (for example) to see there is still in fact pretty fine film grain throughout the image, as well as you're able to discern brushstrokes if you look for them. So I think the representation of the paint over work on the special features that disney has put out claim that every frame has been reanimated in the computer, may be a promotional exaggeration, and it is much more likely that some problematic scenes have been repaired this way and it's been blown out of proportion in the process of selling the restoration as a really big impressive deal.
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
There is evidence of a similar issue with Dumbo in the DVDBeaver caps. Scroll down to the third set of caps, from the scene of Dumbo's mother being restrained with ropes. The colors of the men's clothing are totally different on the Blu-ray and DVD, and distinct lines on the blue costumes in the DVD cap are rendered nearly invisible on the Blu, similar to Cinderella's costume in the link above.
- Adam X
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
There’s evidence, unfortunately, of issues with a number of Disney’s pre-digital animation BD releases (relevant entries begin halfway down the linked page).
Mostly, though, it’s primarily been with absent grain & altered colour, from what I’ve seen.
Mostly, though, it’s primarily been with absent grain & altered colour, from what I’ve seen.
-
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
This is old news because the Cinderella BD came out 4 years ago, and the animation fans were immediately complaining. Just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid...the real issues arise (for me) with the films that also have widescreen equivalents, as Disney will always opt for the masked presentation for the BD (like Pooh). It's not like most films where you lose some headroom or ruin the composition, with animation you're actually removing artwork originally rendered by hand. I have no problem with also including the widescreen presentation, as it is similarly "historically accurate", but as it stands I prefer the old DVDs with the 4x3 fullscreen presenation. Mostly I just think this is scary with how streaming/downloads removes any choice from the consumer. I guess in the case of Pooh there was a HD version on iTunes based on the fullscreen version, which has now been entirely replaced by the latest restoration.
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Yes, I have definitely held on to my old DVD of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh after seeing caps for the Blu online. That one also looks rather soft from its scrubbing, and I understand The Sword in the Stone and Mickey's Christmas Carol are even worse. I can live with the, shall we say, re-interpretations of Cinderella and Dumbo because they at least are pleasing to look at even if they are not representative of the original theatrical releases. But the other three are just eyesores even without historical context.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Sword in the Stone indeed is a visual nightmare and the animated equivalent of Predator UHE release.
- Adam X
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Or perhaps Koch Vision's Gulliver's Travels?
They're both really bad.
They're both really bad.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Disney is releasing thirteen Mickey Mouse cartoons on Blu-ray:
Steamboat Willie (1928)
the Band Concert (1935)
Mickey's Rival (1936)
Thru the Mirror (1936)
Boat Builders (1938)
Brave Little Tailor (1938)
Mickey's Trailer (1938)
Tugboat Mickey (1940)
the Little Whirlwind (1941)
Mickey's Birthday Party (1942)
Pluto's Party (1952)
the Simple Things (1953)
Get A Horse (2013)
Steamboat Willie (1928)
the Band Concert (1935)
Mickey's Rival (1936)
Thru the Mirror (1936)
Boat Builders (1938)
Brave Little Tailor (1938)
Mickey's Trailer (1938)
Tugboat Mickey (1940)
the Little Whirlwind (1941)
Mickey's Birthday Party (1942)
Pluto's Party (1952)
the Simple Things (1953)
Get A Horse (2013)
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Finally figured out by viewing other forums since google failed to produce anything) this release is called “celebrating Mickey”domino harvey wrote:Disney is releasing thirteen Mickey Mouse cartoons on Blu-ray:
Steamboat Willie (1928)
the Band Concert (1935)
Mickey's Rival (1936)
Thru the Mirror (1936)
Boat Builders (1938)
Brave Little Tailor (1938)
Mickey's Trailer (1938)
Tugboat Mickey (1940)
the Little Whirlwind (1941)
Mickey's Birthday Party (1942)
Pluto's Party (1952)
the Simple Things (1953)
Get A Horse (2013)
and it will include a digital copy, so I’ll probably pick it up for that reason alone.
I’m going to be wary of the release though, the shorts bundles on iTunes are six minute cut downs and have allegedly been revoiced by today’s Mickey et al voices so to be in congruity with contemporary IP representations.
I wish they’d swap out the meh Mickeys rival for “on Ice” though.
-
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
I wouldnt puy it past Disney, but doesnt Walt himself voice Mickey in the early cartoons?movielocke wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:31 pmFinally figured out by viewing other forums since google failed to produce anything) this release is called “celebrating Mickey”domino harvey wrote:Disney is releasing thirteen Mickey Mouse cartoons on Blu-ray:
Steamboat Willie (1928)
the Band Concert (1935)
Mickey's Rival (1936)
Thru the Mirror (1936)
Boat Builders (1938)
Brave Little Tailor (1938)
Mickey's Trailer (1938)
Tugboat Mickey (1940)
the Little Whirlwind (1941)
Mickey's Birthday Party (1942)
Pluto's Party (1952)
the Simple Things (1953)
Get A Horse (2013)
and it will include a digital copy, so I’ll probably pick it up for that reason alone.
I’m going to be wary of the release though, the shorts bundles on iTunes are six minute cut downs and have allegedly been revoiced by today’s Mickey et al voices so to be in congruity with contemporary IP representations.
I wish they’d swap out the meh Mickeys rival for “on Ice” though.
- captveg
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Disney Movie Club's next BD exclusive releases are 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and In Search of the Castaways (1962). Keep your 2-Disc DVD of 20,000 Leagues for the bonus, as the BD will likely be barebones.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Well that’s like a decade late on the blu. I bought the dvd on release date and still haven’t watched the extras, is it valuable?captveg wrote:Disney Movie Club's next BD exclusive releases are 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and In Search of the Castaways (1962). Keep your 2-Disc DVD of 20,000 Leagues for the bonus, as the BD will likely be barebones.
- captveg
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
No. The DVD is still readily available on Amazon for $10. The bonus content is pretty extensive and well done, though. (This is from the same era as the "Vault Disney" titles like The Parent Trap (1961) 2-Disc DVD set, though this one wasn't labeled as such).movielocke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:20 pmWell that’s like a decade late on the blu. I bought the dvd on release date and still haven’t watched the extras, is it valuable?captveg wrote:Disney Movie Club's next BD exclusive releases are 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and In Search of the Castaways (1962). Keep your 2-Disc DVD of 20,000 Leagues for the bonus, as the BD will likely be barebones.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and The Love Bug were both labeled as Vault Disney titles (wave 2) in the initial rumors/announcement phases of their release. But as the the Vault Disney line didn't take off, the branding was retired after wave 1 and the approach to the special features they used also died out. Much the same happened to the Legacy Collection brand (limited to only one wave comprising the Tru Life Adventures releases).captveg wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:24 pmNo. The DVD is still readily available on Amazon for $10. The bonus content is pretty extensive and well done, though. (This is from the same era as the "Vault Disney" titles like The Parent Trap (1961) 2-Disc DVD set, though this one wasn't labeled as such).movielocke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:20 pmWell that’s like a decade late on the blu. I bought the dvd on release date and still haven’t watched the extras, is it valuable?captveg wrote:Disney Movie Club's next BD exclusive releases are 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954) and In Search of the Castaways (1962). Keep your 2-Disc DVD of 20,000 Leagues for the bonus, as the BD will likely be barebones.
Kind of remarkable in retrospect that the Treasures Collection lasted nine waves, they must have either sold remarkably well compared to the Vault and Legacy brands or had a lot more internal support. Probably a combination of both (Roy Disney being the prominent champion of the Treasures line kept it going for years, and I personally know people working at Disney that love the Treasures line and own it themselves but not so things like Vault Disney or the Legacy collection)
- captveg
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Yeah, that was a short golden-age era for classic Disney on DVD. I own most of the Treasures (I passed on some of the live action TV sets), as well as all the Tru-Life Adventure sets. So little of that material has been duplicated on Blu-ray.
- captveg
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Disney Movie Club's next BD exclusive releases are The Black Hole (1979) and George of the Jungle (1997).
- Adam X
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am
Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu
Have any of the Movie Club titles gotten a general release afterward? I'm asking specifically with an interest in The Black Hole. Seem to be one of the only people who enjoyed this film as a kid these days.