Ken Russell on DVD

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Person
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#176 Post by Person » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:03 pm

foggy eyes wrote:
colinr0380 wrote:Dance of the Seven Veils about Richard Strauss.
Wow - I thought the Strauss estate's embargo on this would be insurmountable. The copyright doesn't expire until 2019.
What bothered the Strauss Estate about the film?

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foggy eyes
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#177 Post by foggy eyes » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:10 pm

As far as I'm aware, they weren't especially pleased with Russell's scathing portrayal and promptly took out an injunction against the film (which effectively prevented the use of the subject's music on the soundtrack). I'm sure MichaelB or others will be able to offer more information on this.

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Lino
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#178 Post by Lino » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:41 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
Person wrote:BBC America via Warner will be releasing some of Ken's early BBC films: link

No, Bartok or Elgar, but this is great news.
Amazing news!:
Our collection includes two early films starring Oliver Reed, The Debussy Film and Dante’s Inferno about Dante Gabriel Rossetti, as well as Always on Sunday about Henri Rousseau, Isadora: The Biggest Dancer in the World, A Song of Summer about Frederick Delius, and Dance of the Seven Veils about Richard Strauss.
Really, really amazing news! This almost makes up for the fact of The Devils being canceled. Almost.

The Debussy movie is fabulous but the biggest treats here are the Isadora and the Strauss ones! Let's only hope they don't take too long to release these.

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MichaelB
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#179 Post by MichaelB » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:29 am

davidhare wrote:Again MB can confirm but an imdb review jogged my memory of a very unhindered portrayal of Strauss' cosy relationship with Hitler and the Nazis. (As was von Karajan's of course.) Even if the incident the epiosde depicts (a picnic with Hitler) is an imaginative reverie it certainly deserves to be there, all things being equal.
The Strauss estate's problems with the film go well beyond that - here's my Screenonline synopsis! Even if it wasn't for the section showing Strauss in cahoots with the Nazis and turning a blind eye to anti-Semitic atrocities (seeing SS thugs carving a Star of David into an elderly Jewish concertgoer's chest, his response is to urge the orchestra to play louder to drown out the screams), I suspect they'd have issues with the first half, in which Strauss is portrayed as a sex and money-obsessed maniac.

So it's really a case of showing it uncut or not at all - I can't see how editing it would make much difference to the overall tone.

In Europe, it's effectively banned until 2019 - i.e. 70 years after the composer's death - as there's next to no chance of the Strauss estate relenting, and they control not only the music rights but also the dialogue rights, as Russell made sure that everything Strauss uttered was sourced from his own writings (so he damned himself out of his own mouth) - he even cheekily gave Strauss a co-writing credit.

On the other hand, in a country where copyright expires after a shorter term - 50 years, say, or even 60 - then there's no barrier to it being released, provided the performance rights are cleared.
Lino wrote:The Debussy movie is fabulous but the biggest treats here are the Isadora and the Strauss ones! Let's only hope they don't take too long to release these.
I'm not about to disagree, but Always on Sunday is a little gem, too - it's a portrait of the Douanier Rousseau in which Russell cast a genuine British naive painter, whose visible awkwardness (he'd never acted before) and strong regional accent were absolutely appropriate for the character.

Its only drawback is that it's in black and white, which does Rousseau's Technicolor dreamscapes no favours. Other than that, it's a treat.

If you want to know more about individual titles, here are my Screenonline pieces on The Debussy Film, Always On Sunday, Isadora, Song of Summer and Dance of the Seven Veils. Plus my overview of Russell's TV work in general - and I can't tell you how glad I am that it's starting to get a proper release! As I said at the start of my main piece, Russell himself ranks his best TV work at least as high as his feature films, and its only its inaccessibility that's prevented its reputation from growing.

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#180 Post by MichaelB » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:40 am

davidhare wrote:Everything in the copyright area has changed since I worked as a music producer until 1990 but as I recall the longest rights (100 years in Oz) obtained for vocal works - viz opera, etc , thus the Salome libretto which was first published and performed in 1905 should have come into the "open" at least three years ago.

Or have I got this completely arse about?
I think it varies from country to country - in the EU, creative works expire 70 years after their creator's death (it used to be 50 years in Britain, but was extended in the mid-1990s to harmonise things across Europe - which is why James Joyce and others were temporarily liberated but are now copyrighted again). And Strauss died in 1949, which is why his works won't expire until 2019 - in Europe.

But as this is a US release (the film's original nationality is immaterial), their copyright laws will apply - I don't know what the current position is, but clearly BBC America seems to think that they won't have the problems that they'd have in Europe.

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#181 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:56 am

MichaelB wrote:
davidhare wrote:Everything in the copyright area has changed since I worked as a music producer until 1990 but as I recall the longest rights (100 years in Oz) obtained for vocal works - viz opera, etc , thus the Salome libretto which was first published and performed in 1905 should have come into the "open" at least three years ago.

Or have I got this completely arse about?
I think it varies from country to country - in the EU, creative works expire 70 years after their creator's death (it used to be 50 years in Britain, but was extended in the mid-1990s to harmonise things across Europe - which is why James Joyce and others were temporarily liberated but are now copyrighted again). And Strauss died in 1949, which is why his works won't expire until 2019 - in Europe.

But as this is a US release (the film's original nationality is immaterial), their copyright laws will apply - I don't know what the current position is, but clearly BBC America seems to think that they won't have the problems that they'd have in Europe.
Yes Joyce's trustees, meaning mainly the manic grandson Stephen Joyce, had a 'corrected text' of Ulysses published in 1993, as the then 50 year copyright on the original had run out in 1991, but creating a new version somehow put the clock back to zero and back into copyright on that version of the novel which was then deemed the definitive! ... Then the EU extended the limit to 70 years so put everything back in the clink and the consensus on the 'corrected text' wasn't so good anyway...

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#182 Post by MichaelB » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:32 am

ellipsis7 wrote:Yes Joyce's trustees, meaning mainly the manic grandson Stephen Joyce, had a 'corrected text' of Ulysses published in 1993, as the then 50 year copyright on the original had run out in 1991, but creating a new version somehow put the clock back to zero and back into copyright on that version of the novel which was then deemed the definitive! ... Then the EU extended the limit to 70 years so put everything back in the clink and the consensus on the 'corrected text' wasn't so good anyway...
You get a similar situation with films - even if a film is nominally in the public domain, a particular version of the film may still be in copyright if it involves any additional elements (a copyrighted score, restoration work, new titles, etc.)

When uploading public-domain material online as part of my job, I often have to be quite careful about silent film music - and generally play safe by removing it altogether.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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#183 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:36 am

Didn't know that 70's groover David Axelrod dedicated a little number to our Ken??
Nor did I till I found this - (For fans of waspish synth wah wahing and wanging around)

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#184 Post by MichaelB » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:42 am

Actually, just to expand on my last point, a film may be problematic if it contains third-party footage that's owned by someone else - which may well explain why Russell's superb Bela Bartok isn't included in the line-up.

Much of the footage was taken from various Eastern European films, notably George Hoellering's seminal Hortobagy (a Hungarian film shot during Bartok's lifetime) - so any DVD release will have to clear those rights separately. And since Bartok is also still in copyright till 2015 (in Europe), there's an additional expense there too.

By contrast, Debussy and Delius are safely out of copyright, so it's only the performance rights that cause hassle. But Russell's Prokofiev - Portrait of a Soviet Composer is also potentially tricky, as it makes even more extensive use of third party footage, with a fair bit of Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky - and Prokofiev's European copyright won't expire until 2023!

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#185 Post by Cronenfly » Mon May 26, 2008 7:11 pm

Amazon listing for Russell BBC set, out September 23.

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#186 Post by Àngel Maeztu » Wed May 28, 2008 7:08 am

Cronenfly wrote:Amazon listing for Russell BBC set, out September 23.
DVD Empire and another link concerning this fantastic next release.

All the best, amigos. Àngel.

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Barmy
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#187 Post by Barmy » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:55 pm

Ken Russell is appearing at Anthology Film Archives on Halloween for a midnight screening of The Devils.

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#188 Post by Narshty » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:13 pm

Still no reviews? I'm paranoid that Dance of the Seven Veils will be pulled at the last minute. And it would be nice to know if Ken's recorded new commentaries, or even if just the ones from the BFI discs for Elgar and Song of Summer are on there (the latter is especially good for what he considers his best film, and I'd agree).

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#189 Post by MichaelB » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:56 pm

Narshty wrote:Still no reviews? I'm paranoid that Dance of the Seven Veils will be pulled at the last minute. And it would be nice to know if Ken's recorded new commentaries, or even if just the ones from the BFI discs for Elgar and Song of Summer are on there (the latter is especially good for what he considers his best film, and I'd agree).
I've been trying to blag a review copy of this for ages, but BBC America haven't returned my calls.

But there doesn't seem to be any particular reason for Dance of the Seven Veils to be pulled, if my understanding of US copyright law is correct. The BBC owns all the rights aside from the music ones, and if they've expired, the Strauss estate doesn't have a leg to stand on.

(And even if it does get pulled, there's more than enough elsewhere in the box to make it worthwhile - in fact, notoriety aside, Seven Veils is one of the weaker films in the set!)

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#190 Post by Lino » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:36 pm

What's the verdict on this recently released Valentino DVD?

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DiVicenzo
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#191 Post by DiVicenzo » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:38 am

Lino wrote:Dare I say, best british film ever?

I am new here and have a Yahoo Group dedicated to Ken but just found this Forum so, I am way behind.

Lino - you would be very right in saying The Devils is best British film ever! It's stupendous and never been bettered IMO.

I took over a petition that has been on the Internet a couple of years to get the film released on DVD. When I found it - courtesy of Ken - it had 174 signatures on it. Having championed this neglected petition toady I can say that it has 1064 signatures (16 have to be ignored as they are idiots just messing around).

Last year I sent it off by snail-mail to Warner Bros UK and just a couple of weeks ago I sent it off by email to Criterion with a link to Mark Kermode's BBC plea to release it and a link to the IMDB comments on the film.

What I need now is a Warner Bros US address to send it off to as it is they who are dragging their heels!
Lino wrote:I still maintain my inicial stance that you only dislike him because you are british.

I am British to the core as is Ken! And, I love his work - the man is a genius!

Now, someone mentioned Pasolini above - utter amateur rubbish. I can't get on with Derek Jarman's work either but his sets for 'The Devils' were something else.

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#192 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:49 am

Image

Director Bernard Rose on Ken in today's Guardian

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#193 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:57 am

Great piece!
He tells me about a planned biography of Russian composer Scriabin. "I want giant bells hanging from clouds. A couple making love on a giant bed. Of course, it's too expensive to do. I did it as a radio play with Oliver Reed. I'd love to make it as a film." I ask if he ever applied to the Film Council for a grant and Russell replies sadly: "I did, but they just treat me like some kind of joke." It's a shame they don't recognise Russell's importance. If the UK Film Council don't want to fund his work, they should at least put him forward for a knighthood.
Strange, some people would have the same attitude to the UK Film Council!

And don't put Mr Russell up for a knighthood. The last thing I want to see is him kowtowing in front of the Queen after a political decision has been made to honour him - unless he wears the same costume he wore on going into the Big Brother house and is allowed the orchestrate the whole ceremony into a kind of maniacal orgy scored to Mahler, of course!

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#194 Post by DiVicenzo » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:20 am

ellipsis7 wrote:Director Bernard Rose on Ken in today's Guardian

Thanks for this - loved it! And, yes Ken deserves a Knighthood - I created a petition at the 10 Downing Street website. Ken's wife has signed it - of course and he said he would accept one. Here's the link.

Unfortunately, only British residents can sign it but if you have British friends just use their address :D

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#195 Post by Lino » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:02 pm

DiVicenzo wrote:I took over a petition that has been on the Internet a couple of years to get the film released on DVD. (...)

Last year I sent it off by snail-mail to Warner Bros UK and just a couple of weeks ago I sent it off by email to Criterion with a link to Mark Kermode's BBC plea to release it and a link to the IMDB comments on the film.

What I need now is a Warner Bros US address to send it off to as it is they who are dragging their heels!
Hi, and first of all, welcome to the forum! It's always great to see some Russell enthusiasts and lovers coming out of the woodwork now and then as it keeps my passion for all things Russellian very much alive!

Now, about you trying to get Criterion to release The Devils on DVD: no fat chance, I'm afraid as it is widely known that Warner doesn't license ANY of their titles to third parties. What you really need is a Warner address that I'm sure that someone on this board will manage to get to you pronto.

Meanwhile, does anyone have any info on the recently released Valentino DVD that I mentioned above? Oh, and before I go, here's DVDTalk's review of Ken Russell at the BBC, a clear must-have if you ever doubted.

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#196 Post by DiVicenzo » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:26 pm

Lino wrote:Hi, and first of all, welcome to the forum! It's always great to see some Russell enthusiasts and lovers coming out of the woodwork now and then as it keeps my passion for all things Russellian very much alive!

Now, about you trying to get Criterion to release The Devils on DVD: no fat chance, I'm afraid as it is widely known that Warner doesn't license ANY of their titles to third parties. What you really need is a Warner address that I'm sure that someone on this board will manage to get to you pronto.

Thanks for the welcome! I have been an admirer since I saw 'Women in Love' way back in 1969. And, I have attended his last two birthday parties I am very glad to show off about.... it's taken me *that* long...

... it's funny you should say that about Warner Bros but they have, I believe recently issued a third party title - the name of which escapes me at the moment. But, I will check and get back to you...and, I am not one to give up on things that I believe in :D

Anyway, it's very late and I must unto my bed until the morrow :wink:

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#197 Post by luridedith » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:54 pm

Lino wrote:Oh, and before I go, here's DVDTalk's review of Ken Russell at the BBC, a clear must-have if you ever doubted.
Shit, either the reviewer didn't get the complete, finalized set or Dance Of The Seven Veils HAS been pulled at the last minute. It not mentioned at all in the review.

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DiVicenzo
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#198 Post by DiVicenzo » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:52 am

luridedith wrote:
Lino wrote:Oh, and before I go, here's DVDTalk's review of Ken Russell at the BBC, a clear must-have if you ever doubted.

Shit, either the reviewer didn't get the complete, finalized set or Dance Of The Seven Veils HAS been pulled at the last minute. It not mentioned at all in the review.

I know I have just read this and I am devastated. Let's see if Ken knows anything.

I did get to see it the once at the BFI in London and it was typical Ken Russell and I loved it!

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#199 Post by MichaelB » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:12 am

DiVicenzo wrote:Shit, either the reviewer didn't get the complete, finalized set or Dance Of The Seven Veils HAS been pulled at the last minute. It not mentioned at all in the review.

It's not the sort of film that's easy to ignore!

I have to say it doesn't surprise me - I'm not familiar with US copyright law, but the film is definitely unreleasable until 2019 in Europe (i.e. 70 years after Richard Strauss's death), and I'm under the impression that the same 70-year rule applies in the US in certain circumstances thanks to the notorious Sonny Bono clause - though I may be misreading things totally.

And if it is a music rights issue, then the film is effectively unreleasable in the US as well - the soundtrack is quite literally wall-to-wall Strauss, and while Russell documentaries have been showing clips with Johann Strauss' music, that approach wouldn't work with the whole film.

So it looks as though the only legal option is to book a viewing at the BFI National Archive, which is what I had to do.

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#200 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:57 am

The 70-year rule applies in all cases of individual authorship, so long as the copyright was still valid in 1998. The pre-1998 U.S. copyright term was the life of the author plus fifty years, so Strauss' works wouldn't have entered the public domain until 1999; the Bono Act extended the term to 2019, i.e. same as the EU.

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