Jacques Rivette

Message

jguitar · #51 Post by **jguitar** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:50 pm

Yep, that was me in the 3rd row. I actually noticed you in the 2nd row--you moved over one seat at a time until you were able to make your exit. I also noticed the guy dashing out, though I didn't know why.

I'll probably make for the same seat, so perhaps I'll see you there.

Also, as Kerpan says, the film is quite funny in spots. And the film dragging a bit is part of the point, it seems, but I'll save further reflections until after I've seen the rest.

franco · #52 Post by **franco** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:07 pm

jguitar, i think you should avail yourself of a more centered location, unless you prefer side seats of course - but for such 1.33:1 films it's excruciating (for me at least) to be watching from the margin, where my location is practically out of the frame.

I would have stayed longer if I didn't have so much homework, although I admit that for a theatre experience of 13 hours, I'd rather watch The Death of Mr. Lazarescu 5 times or L'Intrus 6 times. If Out 1 were on DVD then I would more likely watch it.

So the young man did come back for the 3rd show - with someone who looked like his mother (or "his older girlfriend" as someone said). When questioned whether he had a camcorder with him, he denied.

Michael Kerpan · #53 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:28 pm

My guess is that Out 1 might well work best seen at the rate of an episode or two a week. In any event -- that's probably how I will watch it.

;~}

jguitar · #54 Post by **jguitar** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:15 am

Well, having just come back from Vancouver after watching the rest of the episodes, I'd have to say that I'd highly recommend seeing it in a short space of time. I'm sure that seeing the episodes one per week would work fine--it was intended for television, after all. But the film really packed a punch as it unfolded in that concentrated way. Rosenbaum has called it "the definitive film about the 60s counterculture." As such, it's a devastating indictment.

Franco, I tend to watch films from the sides like that. I'm not sure why. The Van City theatre is an incredibly comfortable theatre in which to watch a film, so if you're going to sit for several hours, that's the place to do it. When it shows at VIFF, they're going to show the first two episodes on Friday night, and then all the rest on Saturday, starting at 11am. I'd love to see it again. So much time and mental space is taken up by keeping track of the various characters that another viewing would be helpful in paying attention to other things.

About the length, and why it might be a good thing: first of all, I've always had a high tolerance for boredom. And there are undeniably boring passages in the film. However, there is a kind of character development that happens over time that you don't get with shorter durations. In the program notes, they quote Dennis Lim from the NYT as saying that it's "a movie equivalent of reading Proust." Someone would have to trot this cliche out: long work of art=Proust. But in this case, it works. With Proust's novel, you spend so much time with the characters and see them over time in new social groupings so that your idea of them has time to grow and change, even as they develop new personality traits that seem to contradict earlier ones. That kind of complexity is achieved by Out 1.

The Pacific Cinematheque in Vancouver is showing Out 1: Spectre this spring, as part of a Rivette retrospective. I'm anxious to see that as well, to see how it compares with the longer work. So that this doesn't turn into the Out 1 of posts, I'd better stop here.

alexismyname · #55 Post by **alexismyname** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:32 pm

The more widely available version (the only version to reach videotape) is OUT 1: SPECTRE. SPECTRE is four hours long. It is, from what I have been able to gather, mostly a condensed version of the longer film, with certain alternate takes substituted (a bit of a precursor to LA BELLE NOUISIE/DIVERTIMENTO).

Actually, if memory serves me well, I believe Rosenbaum has stated that the two features are very different - not just in time length, but also in the manner of the editing - and they each work towards different ends.

Michael Kerpan · #56 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:44 pm

The long version was released on video in France (4 tapes, I believe) -- but out of print for more than 5 years.

There is still no subbed (or unsubbed) DVD version of the unbutchered "Joan the Maid" (the Facets release having about a quarter of the film sliced out).

tavernier · #57 Post by **tavernier** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:12 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:There is still no subbed (or unsubbed) DVD version of the unbutchered "Joan the Maid" (the Facets release having about a quarter of the film sliced out).

There never seemed to be any brouhaha over the length of Joan the Maid when it was first released on DVD by Facets.
I saw it at the Toronto fest when it was first shown there in 93, I believe....so my memory of its actual length isn't too good. (I do remember its brilliance, however...my fave Rivette film by far).

Barmy · #58 Post by **Barmy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:20 pm

It was released in both a short and a long version.

Facets, I'm just assuming, used the short version.

imdb has 160 min. and 176 min., respectively, for the 2 parts of the long version. I'm pretty sure Facets is a lot shorter.

Michael Kerpan · #59 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:27 pm

Rivette has apparently stated that the American distributor cut "Joan" without any authorization whatsoever. (As opposed to other cases where he himself created shorter versions under duress -- as with L'amour par terre). Facets apparently simply released this "unapproved" American version.

tavernier · #60 Post by **tavernier** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:29 pm

Barmy wrote:It was released in both a short and a long version.

Facets, I'm just assuming, used the short version.

imdb has 160 min. and 176 min., respectively, for the 2 parts of the long version. I'm pretty sure Facets is a lot shorter.

I just popped in the Facets discs: Part 1 is 112 minutes, and part 2 is 116 minutes.

Barmy · #61 Post by **Barmy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:36 pm

What's a few hours among friends?

Tommaso · #62 Post by **Tommaso** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:12 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:Rivette has apparently stated that the American distributor cut "Joan" without any authorization whatsoever. (As opposed to other cases where he himself created shorter versions under duress -- as with L'amour par terre). Facets apparently simply released this "unapproved" American version.

Problem is that the shortened version was not only used in the US. "Joan" has been repeatedly shown on German TV, but always in this butchered version. I was happy enough to watch the complete cut in the cinema when it came out, and really, it was not a minute too long. So much said, I really really wonder why there is not at least a French dvd of it. It's a masterpiece film, and should be a very obvious candidate for arte edition, regarding their past (and very good) Rivette efforts.

cinemartin · #63 Post by **cinemartin** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:24 am

I have the full version of JOAN, but it is unsubtitled and I don't speak French. I would gladly send someone a copy. Is there any good translators with enough time on their hands to subtitle a 4 hour plus film?

justeleblanc · #64 Post by **justeleblanc** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:16 pm

I'm sorry if this has already been answered (though I did scan the thread)...

Besides theatrical showings, does anyone know of any other source where I can see OUT 1? Are there bootlegs out there of some sort? I've just discovered Rivette (& Balzac for that matter). I'm not too optimistic since the upcoming Rivette festival in NYC is using only a 16 mm print, which I assume means a DVD release is far from happening. If only DC had similar Rivette festivals.

PM me if you know of any illegal sources.

cinemartin · #65 Post by **cinemartin** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:24 pm

There has never been a 35mm print of this film. It has been 16 since conception.

pianocrash · #66 Post by **pianocrash** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:19 pm

Besides theatrical showings, does anyone know of any other source where I can see OUT 1? Are there bootlegs out there of some sort? I've just discovered Rivette (& Balzac for that matter). I'm not too optimistic since the upcoming Rivette festival in NYC is using only a 16 mm print, which I assume means a DVD release is far from happening. If only DC had similar Rivette festivals.

This movie has had a reputation of barely even being screened, let alone being bootlegged. So, in other words, if any lone wolf out there seems to have a copy of Out 1, don't just send pm's, please post in that thread of threads (you know which one), as to share the love. Yes, even the very shortened version would be appreciated (as if, cough cough). Or, if you have some living space to lend out during the festival, I'm sure one or two or eight people on this forum would appreciate your hospitality (and/or cold water flat w/ 100 cats & no heat). But not me (of course).

Michael Kerpan · #67 Post by **Michael Kerpan** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:06 pm

The full Out 1 was shown on Italian TV -- and looked pretty good (grainy -- but good color). It's sounds like the English-subbed print shown recently is not nearly so nice-looking.

justeleblanc · #68 Post by **justeleblanc** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:44 pm

I assume Rivette owns the film. Why not just contact him directly?

Anyone know his mail box?

fred · #69 Post by **fred** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:04 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:It's sounds like the English-subbed print shown recently is not nearly so nice-looking.

The print isn't English subbed. It's being soft-titled: subtitles will be projected on the screen, with synching at the whim of the operator. My experiences with this have been mixed even with much shorter films. Reports of the screenings in Vancouver weren't very encouraging on this front, but I presume that AMMI will be using different personnel for their screening.

Artois · #70 Post by **Artois** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:26 am

I saw it at the NFT earlier this year, the subtitles were pretty much acceptable, there was one episode though if I remember correctly with out of sync subtitles that had me and my girlfriend looking at each other going 'Errr...', but it turned out not to be a problem, I can't remember if it was fixed during or for the next episode. Also I seem to remember fair amounts of unsubbed dialogue (if i remember correctly it was one episode in particular).

cinemartin · #71 Post by **cinemartin** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:31 pm

[quote="Barmy"]I'd rather see Duelle or Noroit (both of which played in NYC 10 or so years ago) or Merry Go Round on DVD, frankly.

I'm not sure about this but...

http://www.cdiscount.com/dvd/dvdtheque/ ... -n/a-_-n/a

Barmy · #72 Post by **Barmy** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:43 pm

Yes, I've ordered that. No subs, however.

cinemartin · #73 Post by **cinemartin** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:43 pm

Did you get it yet? How does it look?

Barmy · #74 Post by **Barmy** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:55 pm

I need to pick it up from my local FedEx. I'll report back once I take a look.

#75 Post by **domino harvey** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:43 am

this seems like the place to ask: has Rivette's the Nun been released anywhere on DVD or VHS even?