Fuck The Deaf

[Michael]

Schreck, when you were a little vampire, did you and your friends ever push a deaf-mute into the river?

No wonder why you're in North Carolina. Deaf people find "deaf-mute" - a way very ancient label - offensive. After living with my deaf partner for 9 years and having many deaf friends, it's hard for me to take this kind of scarcasm.

[tryavna]

Schreck, when you were a little vampire, did you and your friends ever push a deaf-mute into the river?

No wonder why you're in North Carolina. Deaf people find "deaf-mute" - a way very ancient label - offensive. After living with my deaf partner for 9 years and having many deaf friends, it's hard for me to take this kind of scarcasm.

You might want to take this up with the BFI, too. From their accompanying booklet: "Writtne by Horne, Together is a poetic study -- but not a typical romanticisation -- of London's East End, with its bombsites, narrow streets, riversides, warehouses, markets and pubs. It follows the solitary existence of two deaf-mute dockers, whose disability isolates them from the world around them...."

Last time I heard, the BFI wasn't centered in North Carolina....

[HerrSchreck]

Holy guacaflolee. I'd been waiting to get perhaps-deservedly clobbered by Mike as I realized a little while ago that there's a board-poster (he) here with an actual deaf partner... and tryavna got whomped instead. Maybe he wont read mine above that...

[tryavna]

Holy guacaflolee. I'd been waiting to get perhaps-deservedly clobbered by Mike as I realized a little while ago that there's a board-poster (he) here with an actual deaf partner... and tryavna got whomped instead. Maybe he wont read mine above that...

Yeah, it is a bit odd that he singled my post out. I can certainly understand his frustration, since having a bit of fun at the expense of disabled people is always in bad taste and particularly repugnant to those who know/love them. But I wonder if it was just the use of the term "deaf-mute" that made the easy target (though as I point out above, I'm just following the BFI's terminology, not some sort of slack-jawed North Carolinian precedent) or if it was my reference to the disturbing ending of Together. I wonder if Michael has seen that film. It strikes me as a particularly sympathetic depiction of disability, but I wonder what someone who deals with it on a more daily basis thinks of it.

[Michael]

Well tryavna, I didn't know that. Of course I don't really think that way of North Carolina. Actually my uncle (in NY) called Pedrito "deaf mute" once and he took a "beating" right at the dinner table with my family. The perfect kind of scene for film. Pedrito speaks English and Spanish so fluently and beautifully that you will never guess that he's deaf. You will know he's deaf once he focuses on your face, your facial expressions when you speak. He can only get about 10 to 20% of everything you say. He was born 2 months premature because the towns doctor (that was in Puerto Rico) wanted the summer vacation so he called his mother in to have the baby born (via forcep, etc). Of course Pedrito wasn't ready so he ended up very sick and blue. They put him on heavy medication which ruined his hearing totally and permanently.

I'm so blessed that he's alive because it's an immeasurable joy being with him every day. The other day my friend played Barbra Streisand when Pedrito was outside grilling. Pedrito stormed in saying "Now who's whining?!" We all cracked up knowing that he did this on purpose because he never likes Streisand. He's obsessed with Tori Amos though. Every time he gets a new CD he study every word, every lyric and match it to the music with the help of his hearing aid and then he will go on and on with whatever songs he loves. I have to say that it's quite miraculous and beautiful to see him exploring and diving into the heart of music all on his own despite his lifelong 90% hearing loss.

[tryavna]

No offense taken, Michael, and -- far more importantly, because of the subject matter -- no offense meant by me towards you. It's sometimes difficult to resist joining in on a string of tasteless jokes, even when we know we shouldn't. I'm just glad you aren't still thinking of me as an insensitive clod.

I must confess that, of all the people with various forms of "disabilities" (however broadly one defines that term) I've known, I've never actually known anyone who's deaf. So I was simply relying -- consciously or unconsciously -- on the terminology from the BFI booklet. I wonder, however, if the term "deaf-mute" is something that remains less offensive in Britain than in America. The Brits sometimes use words that carry far worse connotations for Americans than they do in the UK. (Probably the "n" word is the most notable example. It's used freely and without malicious intent in major UK films as late as 1949's "Kind Hearts and Coronets" and 1954's "The Dam Busters.")

I'm running a bit off-topic in a thread that's probably already run on long enough anyway, but I find the connotations that become associated with certain words and phrases extremely fascinating.

[skuhn8]

And today on the Waltons...

Actually my uncle (in NY) called Pedrito "deaf mute" once and he took a "beating" right at the dinner table with my family.

[Schkura]

Mike & Pedrito:

I am really confused. The only person who's responded to my inquiries said there was an English sub track on Dazed and Confused after all (he had just finished watching it). His blog and Flickr account have pictures of the opened set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwiggins/147189502/

That's all I got.

Matt

[Michael]

After thinking about it, it's very hard for me to believe that Criterion would just quit subtitling or captioning English-language films after years of offering that great, essential benefit. It could be that it's going through changes (logo, etc) that it doesn't feel like it needs to announce that kind of info even though it's always helpful to know .. or maybe it's just going through some growing pain.

[Michael]

tryavna, Schreck's post about "fucking the deaf" threw me off so much that I didn't read your post as carefully as I should. Plus I didn't get what you were trying to say until you clarified it later. And I shouldn't have been rude about North Carolina.. it's a gorgeous state. I lived in George just below the border line (Toccoa) for a year and I often traveled to NC (luxurious mountains and beaches). I feel that the recent film Loggerheads captured NC so perfectly.

[Schkura]

I think we all remember what its like to be at that awkward phase in life. Little C's breaking out on our foreheads, jerking off to subpar indie flicks under a blanket with a flashlight, all worried about our Image...

[Steven H]

And I shouldn't have been rude about North Carolina.. it's a gorgeous state.

Please feel free to be rude about NC all you want. It's all pig farms and army bases, we're losing tons of previously protected national forest to corporate developers (thanks W!), and we're more interested in arguing about whether or not to install a lottery than possible offshore oil drilling near the outer banks (a truly unique geographical landmark, piece of history (especially considering Kill Devil Hills and the Wright Bros.), and tourism spot that is extremely sensitive to environmental conditions being that it's technically a "sand bridge".)

Regarding the lack of subtitles: maybe Criterion should "let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down" (George H. W. Bush on signing the Americans with Disabilities Act.)? hah.

[GringoTex]

I am really confused. The only person who's responded to my inquiries said there was an English sub track on Dazed and Confused after all (he had just finished watching it).

This thread reminds me of the one where everybody was bitching because Criterion wasn't releasing any box sets in 2006.

[HerrSchreck]

Yeah, it is a bit odd that he singled my post out. I can certainly understand his frustration, since having a bit of fun at the expense of disabled people is always in bad taste and particularly repugnant to those who know/love them..

This is interesting to me, so I'm fighting off an urge to just let this drop.

One of the biggest misconceptions I've ever whiffed in the sum annals of political-correctness is the idea that individuals with either genetically inherited or illness or violence-inflicted disabilities want people to mind their p's & q's regarding specially selected wordings describing their 'afflictions', and that goofing around is off-base.

For if there's one thing I've discovered from my (limited, but not nonexistent.. probably typical save for those folks who work in veterans affairs or medical facilities) interactions with those somehow afflicted folks, the thing that causes them the most profound heartache & feeling of not inhabiting the same psychological/social terrain of 'regular' folk, it's the knowledge that whenever they walk into a room or sit down at a dinner table, their environs become stiff and stilted and full of emotional caution. Folks become inhibited and petrified of saying the wrong thing.

This careful, self-monitoring 'mask' that unafflicted folks very subtly wear in the presence of a disabled person creates for them an enraging divide which is often experienced as the most significant cause of a feeling of seperation, far beyond the physical handicap, that creates the terrible ache that devastates the afflicted and banish their hopes of feeling like a regular person, unhobbled by the physical plane.

The feeling that all humor vanishes, that all sexuality vanishes, that good sick jokes, drunken perversities so common to the everyday young person, the lustful talk, bitches & ho's & rap & tattoos & drunkenness & herb-smoking & nutjob humor blasted back and forth, this is the kind of life that is declined to be offered to the afflicted, and which causes a feeling of extreme seperation for which an anguish naturally becomes manifest.

This feeling that a Congressional Hearing Language And Reminder To Be Self-Monitoring is ever in the room in this modern age.. this sense of being careful, self-conscious, over something that on the part of the so-afflicted is desperately desired to be not-endlessly-hilighted, is agonizing as they are trying to fit into regular life. The best medicine to neutralize an unspoken point of mutual discomfort is to have some humor about it. Humor can remove the threat in just about anything. Disabled folks see people busting on each other left and right, take potshots at weaknesses great and small, see so much being grist for the mill... I think you would almost universally discover that a disabled person would lust after an icebreaking goof on his person far more than he would desire this stilted and hypersensitive paranoia of watching what you say, which he knows is artificial and is according to someone elses code of demeanor. What are the limits? The limits are arbitrary, just as human beings are. Some folks with disabilities may be so naturally sensitive that my post goes out the window. Some are so filled with juice & vinegar that there's nothing they'd crave more than a good busting session so they can get their ya ya's out and hell maybe even "snap" on the 'handicaps' they perceive in the "normal" who act like endless nincompoops. The humor-- so long as the individual knows you are ever on his side, and are not on a mission to be genuinely hurtful-- will break the ice, neutralize the discomfort, bring the disability down to earth, remove the vague sense of fidgety solemnity in the room which is the single most painful barrier to a disabled person's efforts to reaquire normal life. Some of it also may break down the barriers in the opposite direction as above, so that a caring soul may inform a hypersensitive disabled person that they are, by dwelling on their disability to an extreme, may be inhibiting the acquisition of a more normal life.

The issue is sincerity. Most people so afflicted are hypersensitive to insincerity. Because they are everstriving to acquire a normal social life, complete with all the wacky sick shit that you & I all enjoy, the sensitive solemnity suddenly coming over folks who are normally (this is the human race, folks) brainless nitwits drinking beer & dunking chips & smoking herb, it is the bane of their existence. Rethink this dance of testy tiptoeing that culture has bred into you. It can hurt-- not as a rule of course, but in many cases-- more than the physical handicaps of the souls around whom we tiptoe and dance.

[Michael]

Schreck, goofing around can be good and fun but the way you "goofed" about fucking deaf people was plain mean-spirited. I don't see anything funny about it.. that's the stuff you hear in elementary school hallways. Most deaf people don't expect you to tiptoe around them. Believe me, they're among the most direct and forward people I know. The way you "goof" around makes you look like a big idiot. I showed your comment to Pedrito. He just laughed and said that he (meaning you) is probably a baby or high on something. Or you must be living in South Park.

[Narshty]

Hmmm - Criterion are now advertising subtitles for Dazed and Confused on their website. False alarm? Let's hope so.

[Cinesimilitude]

there is definitely someone checking these forums on a daily basis who works there.

[Napoleon]

Hmmm - Criterion are now advertising subtitles for Dazed and Confused on their website. False alarm? Let's hope so.

Odd that they've only updated the film that our moaning focused on (still no subs listed for Harlan/Equinox/Canterbury, although they are listed for Koko). Perhaps they really do read this forum.

How embarrassing.

Still, re-assuring to know that they haven't gone completely nuts and desisted with subs for English-language films.

[Narshty]

I showed your comment to Pedrito. He just laughed and said that he (meaning you) [...]

And then I laughed.

[HerrSchreck]

I thought I remembered off the top of my head Gary mentioning there were no subs on this release.. okay I checked--

The image is pristine. Colors, contrast - everything is excellent. I see no flaws whatsoever. I was surprised that there are no, usual, optional subtitles but that is the only black mark on this stacked package

so if that's the case on their site then a new printing was done... probably an instantaneous response to backlash. Perhaps.


* * *

Listen Michael. I made room for other opinions in my post indicating there are certainly very sensitive scenarios which send my post flying out the window. That's a human concession and acknowledgement of a large world trying their best to find a response to unalterably painful situations.

But if you are going to appoint yourself spokesperson for the points of sensitivity of all afflicted people, as well as give no evidence to the kind of psychological isolation I am talking about in my post, and call me an idiot, then I am left with no choice but to point out that you are notoriously serious and aggrieved, well-known for weeping over stuff like Tex Avery's THE SLAPHAPPY LION. Insulting, knee-jerk reactions like this do nothing but cause well-meaning conversations about difficult & painful situations to be drained of all honesty & humor and atrophy at launch. Count me out.

[The Invunche]

It is impossible to not offend those that want to be offended.

The post was fucking funny. I'll show it to a deaf friend of mine and see what he thinks about it.

Yes, I have friends.

[Michael]

Pedrito was NOT offended by Schreck's comment. He just found it very idiotic... however it may sound strange to you but using "deaf mute" or "deaf and dumb" is very offensive (like calling gay men "fag"). That's why I jumped in to make the comment about trayvna's post but there was a misunderstanding because I didn't read it carefully.

[skuhn8]

ah, the sweet delicious moment when art and political correctness collide. Reminds me of my Shakespeare class in Humboldt U.--two minute deadzone conversations that were killed the instant that a PCer perceived that someone somewhere might be offended. But perhaps it is only in an ideal world when someone inappropriately--albeit--innocently uses a term like "deaf-mute" they would be brought up to speed in an intelligent manner rather than attacked. But to be honest, I've been fortunate, the people that I've had contact with who suffered some form of affliction were pretty much without exception level-headed intelligent people who tried to get along rather than come gunning for offence.

[Michael]

From National Association of the Deaf:

http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp?c=foINKQMBF&b=103786

[toiletduck!]

...and the delicious irony of the thread title FINALLY comes to fruition.

-Toilet Dcuk