I read DVDFile very seldom these days, but I have NEVER read a Criterion DVD review there in which the reviewer didn't bitch & moan about how overpriced Criterion releases are. It is a deeply ingrained and (frankly) tiresome opinion/crusade at that site, so I would interpret Mr. Restaino's words with that in mind.
No matter the perfection of a given CC release in the eyes of the rest of the world, DVD File always seems to find plenty of nits to pick (real or imagined).
342-348 Six Moral Tales
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colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
I got the boxset last week and couldn't wait so opened it straight away. I've just finished Claire's Knee and am about to go through the extras on that disc so I can't comment on them or Love In The Afternoon yet, but I would strongly counter disappointed claims by that reviewer.Narshty wrote:PS. How long are the interviews from someone who already has a copy? Earlier in this thread someone reported the new Rohmer/Schroeder conversation to be almost 90 minutes, and some of the archive interviews were allegedly similarly lengthy and in-depth.
Narshty you are right - the new interview between Barbet Schroeder and Eric Rohmer "Moral Tales, Filmic Issues" runs on for one hour and twenty four minutes. I haven't watched it yet as it seems very in depth and probably worth saving until I've seen all the films. This interview is on the Bakery Girl of Monceau, the shortest of the films, along with Charlotte and Her Steak, so the shortest film does get a lot of extras to make up for the film itself only being 23 minutes.
I think each film having a separate disc is more of a presentation thing - it would just have been too cluttered to stuff all the films and extras on three discs, as well as making the boxset look less aesthetically pleasing. That does mean that Suzanne's Career and the short Nadja In Paris are the only things the second disc, but it allows consideration of it as its own film because it has been considered worthy of its own disc. It isn't an addendum to My Night At Maud's or Claire's Knee etc, but is a companion to them.
My Night At Maud's doesn't have a short film, but instead has On Pascal, an educational film made by Rohmer four years before Maud that runs for twenty five minutes and a TV interview programme that runs for fifteen minutes.
La Collectioneuse is even better with the short A Modern Coed and a Canadian programme that runs for around fifty minutes - the packaging says 'featuring an interview with Rohmer' but it is actually a full interview with him and it looks like Criterion have spliced in stills and film clips during it. Rohmer mentions at one point that he can't think of any stories for a modern idiom and that is one reason why he wanted to do period films, as well as being in a position to be able to make a period film. The interview was at the time he was making Perceval, so it is interesting that he found inspiration later on to return to the present.
I can't believe that anyone would feel that the films look poor. Bakery Girl of Monceau and Suzanne's Career are a little rough, but that gives them a good documentary style look (there is a little flickering on Suzanne's Career, similar to that pointed out on the forum on some other releases, but it isn't too distracting), My Night At Maud's is perfect and La Collectioneuse and Claire's Knee are just stunning. The scene in La Collectioneuse looking through the water at the coral is pefect - it's like you could reach out and touch it, to say nothing about Haydée's prologue!
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arsonfilms
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:53 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
Now that some people have had a chance to go through some advance copies, is there any suggested order that one should keep in mind as they go through? Would it be best to watch the films in order and then move on to the supplements? Would it make more sense to go through each disc in order to put each piece in context? Or is everything varied enough that the order doesn't particularly matter? It was particularly helpful in my exploration of Mr. Arkadin to have a sort of road map to follow (thanks are due in part for the booklet on that one), and I'm almost overwhelmed by the thought of where to begin on this piece. Any advice?
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colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Since I'm thinking about them at the moment I thought I'd post my feelings on the films I've seen so far. I haven't seen Love In The Afternoon yet, so I can't comment on that right now.
I was thinking how the main theme of all the films seems to be one of judgement, or of making assumptions of others, and that these judgements ultimately tell the audience more about the character making them than the person that they are being made about.
The programme on My Night At Maud's and the Rohmer interview on La Collectioneuse talk about the main structure of the Moral Tales as being of someone who is with one woman, who leaves. That person then meets another woman who challenges his morals or captures his attention, but in the end he returns to the original woman.
It is fascinating to see how a simple set of circumstances described above can be imagined in so many different ways, using so many different styles of filming, and with so many different reactions of the characters to the similar situation.
The main male characters in Bakery Girl of Monceau and Suzanne's Career seem very full of themselves. In Bakery Girl it seems like the boy treats the bakery girl almost like an object with no life of her own outside of her encounters with him. The girl in Suzanne's Career has a world beyond the narrator's, but we are so much in his point of view that we perceive her as an independent character but tainted with the narrator's almost irrational hatred of her for her actions. The more she shows herself to be a person acting with her own motivations, the more she is detested by the young man.
It is fascinating to see that throughout the Moral Tales we are given a very male view of women. The female characters are purposefully left mysterious and unknowable. On the occasions when they try to explain themselves their comments are ignored or misinterpreted by the male characters.
Far from being an attack on women, I feel this is trying to suggest how difficult it is to understand others. The most worrying thought I had when watching the films is wondering how the women are perceiving the men - sometimes I got so caught up in the films that I didn't want the women to judge the men as harshly as they were judging her - I didn't want her to get caught up in their games.
Beyond the women the films often show that men often don't understand each other or use each other, such as Vidal using Jean-Louise in My Night At Maud's, Bertrand and Guillame's and Adrien and Daniel's barely concealed contempt towards each other in Suzanne's Career and La Collectioneuse. So I think the lack of communication is not just between men and women but between all individuals.
It perhaps shows how an attack on a woman for being a woman is the easy way out for a mind confused by their feelings towards a person. Perhaps any 'ism' comes about because of a combination of fear of, and fascination with, the unknown.
Perhaps in order to understand the unknowable is why judgements are made about actions others take, and people actively try to mould the reality of events to their own perceptions of what they believe to be happening, it makes it easier than trying to understand people's actions outside of how it impacts on you personally, so for example Haydée is constantly attacked for her 'loose' behaviour by the two guys or Gilles isn't good enough for Claire in Jerome's opinion, Suzanne has become a loose woman according to Bertrand. All are judgements that however close they might come to the 'truth' of a situation allow the characters making them to justify their actions, or justify their writing off of another person as someone unworthy of their attention.
What I like about the Moral Tales is that there are many different takes on this set of ideas. You have the nasty take that treats other people like dirt, or like chess pieces that the narrator moves around without thought to them having a life of their own. I think that would describe Bakery Girl, Suzanne and La Collectioneuse.
Then there are judgements and misinterpretations made by people sensitive to the idea that others are doing the same thing, or at least that other people are leading their own lives outside of their interactions with them. That would seem to describe My Night At Maud's and Claire's Knee.
I haven't yet seen Love In The Afternoon, so I'm not sure where this would fit in. It seems that a set of morals that you work out for yourself are fine but the problems come when you try to impose your morals onto other people.
So far I think all the films are great. I particularly love My Night At Maud's and Claire's Knee though because the characters are much more likeable as they grapple with the issues. I found La Collectioneuse almost painful to watch as it takes the concealed hostility and lack of care for another person to nasty extremes, somewhat like a psychological Salo, but it does have the most supreme moment in all the films so far when Haydée brings Adrien in for a kiss only to wipe her hands dry on his shirt! It reminds me of the scene between Theresa Russell and Art Garfunkle on the staircase in Bad Timing where she tells him to screw her if thats what he wants. If he was a more decent person he would leave and then their relationship would still have a chance, but he decides to have sex with her, proving to her that he only cares about her as an object and not as a lover. His short termism, his giving in to sexual urges has destroyed any respect Theresa Russell's character has for him, and therefore their relationship, even if it pains her (and drives her to despair) to realise it.
The moment in La Collectioneuse is similar as Haydée realises that he hates her, but his morals don't prevent him from grabbing a quick snog if it is offered! She quite literally wipes her hands of him!
Perhaps this is similar to the ending of Contempt where the woman makes the first move and shows that she is leaving the man through a great gesture (in Contempt it is Bardot's swimming off nude), leaving the man to stroke his own ego (amongst other things!) by making his own ineffectual (because it is only done for his benefit after the fact) parting gesture - in Contempt it is Paul's visualisation of the car crash (its obvious fakness showing it as a work of his imagination - and perhaps how bad a writer Paul really is!), and in La Collectioneuse it is Adrien driving off and leaving Haydée, as if she was desperate to be with him anyway!
I thought that it was strange that La Collectioneuse and My Night At Maud's should be in the order they are in, because looking at the the films in the above way La Collectioneuse seems to fit more with the first two films. However with My Night At Maud's coming third, then La Collectioneuse it feels like it is a warning to all those charmed by Maud's that there is another side to the coin where a pair can find each other fascinating but in a mutally destructive way.
I also found the heavy narration in La Collectioneuse going through my mind while watching Claire's Knee. In that film the character is not so cruel, but every once in a while and especially when Claire comes into the film I found myself wondering what a voiceover of what was going through his mind would be saying. Would he be calling Claire a slut, but is just better at controlling (concealing) his contempt or feelings of moral superiority than Adrien could?
Another thing I thought about Claire's Knee was how Jerome and Aurora seem very similar to the scheming pair in Dangerous Liaisons, except they aren't out to destroy others, but do use them for material or in a wager. They have casual fun with children just entering the adult world, with little thought to the consequences it seems. That is similar to the couple in Dangerous Liaisons, although there is no suggestion that Jerome or Aurora in Claire's Knee have any malice in their actions, in fact they barely have a plan in what they intend to do. However coming after La Collectioneuse where Adrien wants to abdicate from all responsibility and reveals his cruel side in his boredom, you worry about the older character's motives in Claire's Knee.
I think the character of Laura in Claire's Knee is magnificent since she remains fully in control of the situation with Jerome in the early part of the film, and is very coherent in expressing her way of thinking. It makes me wonder whether Jerome diverts his attention to Claire because she is an easier target in the sense that she does not seem as intellectual in her response to the world, and has made a bad choice in Gilles already. I found some uncomfortable parallels to Fat Girl while considering Claire and Laura. Claire seems much more worldly but turns out to be more fragile, while Laura is overlooked yet seems more capable with dealing with other people's advances.
Another interesting thing about the Moral Tales series is how the 'framing' woman slowly disappears throughout the film. She is very present in Bakery Girl (with the excuse of spraining her ankle keeping her out of the frame), Suzanne in a way is both the framing and the main girl since she is with other men at the beginning and end of the film and the main part is with Bertrand, making it a story of not being happy with a person, but being even less so when you see them happy with others! Of course Francoise is at the beginning and end of Maud's, but the title and the enormous length of the scene at Maud's apartment make her the central figure
.
Then however the framing women disappear - Carole is at the beginning of La Collectioneuse, but we only get a telephone call at the end of the film to signify Adrian going to her. Lucinde only appears as a photograph in Claire's Knee, while Aurora takes over the entire film, not just the middle and Claire and Laura are used as pawns in Jerome and Aurora's relationship.
Does this suggest the 'framing' women are moving further and further from the minds of the men in the films? Compared to Barbet Schroeder's character in Bakery Girl, when his whole motivation and voice over is about Sylvie, Jerome seems to hardly think of Lucinde and indeed his talk of how the marriage is taking place because they are used to each other, rather than in love suggests she hasn't captured his imagination in the way that the women in the film will.
I was thinking how the main theme of all the films seems to be one of judgement, or of making assumptions of others, and that these judgements ultimately tell the audience more about the character making them than the person that they are being made about.
The programme on My Night At Maud's and the Rohmer interview on La Collectioneuse talk about the main structure of the Moral Tales as being of someone who is with one woman, who leaves. That person then meets another woman who challenges his morals or captures his attention, but in the end he returns to the original woman.
It is fascinating to see how a simple set of circumstances described above can be imagined in so many different ways, using so many different styles of filming, and with so many different reactions of the characters to the similar situation.
The main male characters in Bakery Girl of Monceau and Suzanne's Career seem very full of themselves. In Bakery Girl it seems like the boy treats the bakery girl almost like an object with no life of her own outside of her encounters with him. The girl in Suzanne's Career has a world beyond the narrator's, but we are so much in his point of view that we perceive her as an independent character but tainted with the narrator's almost irrational hatred of her for her actions. The more she shows herself to be a person acting with her own motivations, the more she is detested by the young man.
It is fascinating to see that throughout the Moral Tales we are given a very male view of women. The female characters are purposefully left mysterious and unknowable. On the occasions when they try to explain themselves their comments are ignored or misinterpreted by the male characters.
Far from being an attack on women, I feel this is trying to suggest how difficult it is to understand others. The most worrying thought I had when watching the films is wondering how the women are perceiving the men - sometimes I got so caught up in the films that I didn't want the women to judge the men as harshly as they were judging her - I didn't want her to get caught up in their games.
Beyond the women the films often show that men often don't understand each other or use each other, such as Vidal using Jean-Louise in My Night At Maud's, Bertrand and Guillame's and Adrien and Daniel's barely concealed contempt towards each other in Suzanne's Career and La Collectioneuse. So I think the lack of communication is not just between men and women but between all individuals.
It perhaps shows how an attack on a woman for being a woman is the easy way out for a mind confused by their feelings towards a person. Perhaps any 'ism' comes about because of a combination of fear of, and fascination with, the unknown.
Perhaps in order to understand the unknowable is why judgements are made about actions others take, and people actively try to mould the reality of events to their own perceptions of what they believe to be happening, it makes it easier than trying to understand people's actions outside of how it impacts on you personally, so for example Haydée is constantly attacked for her 'loose' behaviour by the two guys or Gilles isn't good enough for Claire in Jerome's opinion, Suzanne has become a loose woman according to Bertrand. All are judgements that however close they might come to the 'truth' of a situation allow the characters making them to justify their actions, or justify their writing off of another person as someone unworthy of their attention.
What I like about the Moral Tales is that there are many different takes on this set of ideas. You have the nasty take that treats other people like dirt, or like chess pieces that the narrator moves around without thought to them having a life of their own. I think that would describe Bakery Girl, Suzanne and La Collectioneuse.
Then there are judgements and misinterpretations made by people sensitive to the idea that others are doing the same thing, or at least that other people are leading their own lives outside of their interactions with them. That would seem to describe My Night At Maud's and Claire's Knee.
I haven't yet seen Love In The Afternoon, so I'm not sure where this would fit in. It seems that a set of morals that you work out for yourself are fine but the problems come when you try to impose your morals onto other people.
So far I think all the films are great. I particularly love My Night At Maud's and Claire's Knee though because the characters are much more likeable as they grapple with the issues. I found La Collectioneuse almost painful to watch as it takes the concealed hostility and lack of care for another person to nasty extremes, somewhat like a psychological Salo, but it does have the most supreme moment in all the films so far when Haydée brings Adrien in for a kiss only to wipe her hands dry on his shirt! It reminds me of the scene between Theresa Russell and Art Garfunkle on the staircase in Bad Timing where she tells him to screw her if thats what he wants. If he was a more decent person he would leave and then their relationship would still have a chance, but he decides to have sex with her, proving to her that he only cares about her as an object and not as a lover. His short termism, his giving in to sexual urges has destroyed any respect Theresa Russell's character has for him, and therefore their relationship, even if it pains her (and drives her to despair) to realise it.
The moment in La Collectioneuse is similar as Haydée realises that he hates her, but his morals don't prevent him from grabbing a quick snog if it is offered! She quite literally wipes her hands of him!
Perhaps this is similar to the ending of Contempt where the woman makes the first move and shows that she is leaving the man through a great gesture (in Contempt it is Bardot's swimming off nude), leaving the man to stroke his own ego (amongst other things!) by making his own ineffectual (because it is only done for his benefit after the fact) parting gesture - in Contempt it is Paul's visualisation of the car crash (its obvious fakness showing it as a work of his imagination - and perhaps how bad a writer Paul really is!), and in La Collectioneuse it is Adrien driving off and leaving Haydée, as if she was desperate to be with him anyway!
I thought that it was strange that La Collectioneuse and My Night At Maud's should be in the order they are in, because looking at the the films in the above way La Collectioneuse seems to fit more with the first two films. However with My Night At Maud's coming third, then La Collectioneuse it feels like it is a warning to all those charmed by Maud's that there is another side to the coin where a pair can find each other fascinating but in a mutally destructive way.
I also found the heavy narration in La Collectioneuse going through my mind while watching Claire's Knee. In that film the character is not so cruel, but every once in a while and especially when Claire comes into the film I found myself wondering what a voiceover of what was going through his mind would be saying. Would he be calling Claire a slut, but is just better at controlling (concealing) his contempt or feelings of moral superiority than Adrien could?
Another thing I thought about Claire's Knee was how Jerome and Aurora seem very similar to the scheming pair in Dangerous Liaisons, except they aren't out to destroy others, but do use them for material or in a wager. They have casual fun with children just entering the adult world, with little thought to the consequences it seems. That is similar to the couple in Dangerous Liaisons, although there is no suggestion that Jerome or Aurora in Claire's Knee have any malice in their actions, in fact they barely have a plan in what they intend to do. However coming after La Collectioneuse where Adrien wants to abdicate from all responsibility and reveals his cruel side in his boredom, you worry about the older character's motives in Claire's Knee.
I think the character of Laura in Claire's Knee is magnificent since she remains fully in control of the situation with Jerome in the early part of the film, and is very coherent in expressing her way of thinking. It makes me wonder whether Jerome diverts his attention to Claire because she is an easier target in the sense that she does not seem as intellectual in her response to the world, and has made a bad choice in Gilles already. I found some uncomfortable parallels to Fat Girl while considering Claire and Laura. Claire seems much more worldly but turns out to be more fragile, while Laura is overlooked yet seems more capable with dealing with other people's advances.
Another interesting thing about the Moral Tales series is how the 'framing' woman slowly disappears throughout the film. She is very present in Bakery Girl (with the excuse of spraining her ankle keeping her out of the frame), Suzanne in a way is both the framing and the main girl since she is with other men at the beginning and end of the film and the main part is with Bertrand, making it a story of not being happy with a person, but being even less so when you see them happy with others! Of course Francoise is at the beginning and end of Maud's, but the title and the enormous length of the scene at Maud's apartment make her the central figure
SpoilerShow
(am I wrong in thinking that it was Francoise who had the affair with Maud's husband, and that was what she was worried Jean-Louise had found out at the end of the film?)
Then however the framing women disappear - Carole is at the beginning of La Collectioneuse, but we only get a telephone call at the end of the film to signify Adrian going to her. Lucinde only appears as a photograph in Claire's Knee, while Aurora takes over the entire film, not just the middle and Claire and Laura are used as pawns in Jerome and Aurora's relationship.
Does this suggest the 'framing' women are moving further and further from the minds of the men in the films? Compared to Barbet Schroeder's character in Bakery Girl, when his whole motivation and voice over is about Sylvie, Jerome seems to hardly think of Lucinde and indeed his talk of how the marriage is taking place because they are used to each other, rather than in love suggests she hasn't captured his imagination in the way that the women in the film will.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:36 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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montgomery
- Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:02 pm
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
I watched all the extras as I went along (that is, I watched the full content of each disc in order), and that worked for me just fine. Then again, I'd seen all the films before.
Finishing the set last night, I am honestly shocked by that negative review. I'm glad that people can be critical of Criterion instead of the usual fawning, but with this set, any disappointment is misplaced. There is absolutely nothing more you can ask for (I'm not thrilled with the aesthetic design of the set, but so what). Hours of interviews, a whole book of essays, several short films that I've longed to see, etc. etc. That reviewer's complaints about value seem particularly annoying when you consider that he probably got the set for free.
Finishing the set last night, I am honestly shocked by that negative review. I'm glad that people can be critical of Criterion instead of the usual fawning, but with this set, any disappointment is misplaced. There is absolutely nothing more you can ask for (I'm not thrilled with the aesthetic design of the set, but so what). Hours of interviews, a whole book of essays, several short films that I've longed to see, etc. etc. That reviewer's complaints about value seem particularly annoying when you consider that he probably got the set for free.
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Gigi M.
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:09 pm
- Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep
Here's another review with great info about the extras:
Extras Review: Fans should be thrilled with the wealth of supplements found in this set, which do a superb job of illuminating the many talents of this exquisite filmmaker. Not only has Criterion managed to assemble a collection of short films and interview segments detailed below, but the set also includes two printed supplements. The first collects the six original short stories in a 262-page book. The second is a 56-page collection of articles and essays covering the Six Moral Tales, along with Rohmer's 1948 article, For a Talking Cinema and excerpts from cinematographer, Nestor Alamendros' autobiography discussing La Collectionneuse.
The packaging is tasteful, similar in style to Criterion's previous Adventures of Antoine Doinel set. Each disc is housed in its own digipak case containing chapter (7-15 per film) and extras listings. My only minor complaint is that the surrounding box is slightly too large for its contents, which makes it easily susceptable to shipping damage. While trivial in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the care give to its content, the front panel images could have been more carefully chosen so that the new Criterion logo was not obscuring a main character's face.
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Gigi M.
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:09 pm
- Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep
Another review:
[quote]Despite the lack of any commentary tracks, this has to be one of Criterion's most well-conceived and exhaustively researched boxed sets. Rohmer fans couldn't possibly ask for anything more, and even non-fans can appreciate the remarkable breadth of material collected here. Criterion's “Six Moral Talesâ€
[quote]Despite the lack of any commentary tracks, this has to be one of Criterion's most well-conceived and exhaustively researched boxed sets. Rohmer fans couldn't possibly ask for anything more, and even non-fans can appreciate the remarkable breadth of material collected here. Criterion's “Six Moral Talesâ€
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Rich Malloy
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:29 pm
- Location: Boston MA
Good stuff in the NYT too (a couple of snippets below):
[quote]The series has now been packaged by the Criterion Collection into a single box set, filled with a wealth of extras unusual even for that generous organization. Two books are included: a translation of the short stories Mr. Rohmer wrote to guide his films and a volume of essays that includes Mr. Rohmer's own apologia, “For a Talking Cinema.â€
[quote]The series has now been packaged by the Criterion Collection into a single box set, filled with a wealth of extras unusual even for that generous organization. Two books are included: a translation of the short stories Mr. Rohmer wrote to guide his films and a volume of essays that includes Mr. Rohmer's own apologia, “For a Talking Cinema.â€
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Narshty
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
That review gets more atrocious the more I read it.
Even if we pretend none of the interviews, essays or source material on the set exist, haven't Criterion already fulfilled the opportunity to watch the Six Moral Tales in their entirety, even if Mike Restaino has failed to take it?
Yes Mike, especially when said Rohmer interview runs almost an hour and a half on its own. But putting the disc in to find that out (Christ, just give it a cursory check on your DVD-Rom drive) rather than viewing 30 seconds of each transfer to justify your review copy is far too much effort.Mike Restaino wrote:To begin with, the first two Moral Tales – The Bakery Girl of Monceau and Suzanne's Career – have a cumulative running time of only 78 minutes, yet [...] there is no more than 60 minutes of bonus materials
Words fail me. I haven't changed the positioning of those sentences at all.Mike Restaino wrote:The set needs something to put Rohmer's massive contributions to modern French film into context for those of us who haven't seen all six Moral Tales in their entirety.
The good news is that the six films are all marvelous.
Even if we pretend none of the interviews, essays or source material on the set exist, haven't Criterion already fulfilled the opportunity to watch the Six Moral Tales in their entirety, even if Mike Restaino has failed to take it?
That's his review of all six films. In its entirety. (I've actually had to cut and paste two separate sections together to get it to that length.) Remind you of anything? Oh wait...Mike Restaino wrote:The Bakery Girl of Monceau, Suzanne's Career, My Night at Maud's, La Collectionneuse, Claire's Knee and Love in the Afternoon are all visually arresting investigations of the human heart set against the backdrop of Rohmer's lusciously attentive eye for seasonal geographic backgrounds. They're films with the emotional joie de vivre of the nouvelle vague, but with a painterly, timeless quality that Truffaut, Malle, and their cronies only hinted at, despite their implicit respective geniuses. [...] These six films are wonderful examples of Eric Rohmer's singular style.
That's right, he's rewritten the back of the case, only not in as much detail. It's shockingly lazy.Criterion wrote:The multifaceted, deeply personal dramatic universe of Eric Rohmer has had an effect on cinema unlike any other. One of the founding critics of the history-making Cahiers du cinéma, Rohmer began translating his written manifestos to film in the sixties, standing apart from his new-wave contemporaries, like François Truffaut and Jean-Luc Godard, with his patented brand of gently existential, hyperarticulate character studies set against vivid seasonal landscapes. This near genre unto itself was established with his audacious and wildly influential series Six Moral Tales. A succession of jousts between fragile men and the women who tempt them, Six Moral Tales unleashed on the film world a new voice, one that was at once sexy, philosophical, modern, daring, nonjudgmental, and liberating.
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Ishmael
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:56 pm
To add to Narshty's critique:
Huh? Those Fox Lorber Moral Tales I own must have been made by some other Eric Rohmer or something. Apparently, Restaino can't even be bothered to do a search.Mike Restaino wrote:Eric Rohmer's Six Moral Tales is a notable release not simply because of its heretofore unavailability in domestic American DVD markets...
How does this "inaugurate the new line" of the CC? It inaugurates a new logo, but it's not like this is the new Eclipse line or anything. Also, why would anybody be "awaiting this one with baited breath" just for that reason? We've all seen the new look online already. Is anybody buying this set just because they can't wait to see the new logo live and in person?Mike Restaino wrote:...inaugurates the new line of Criterion Collection releases. It has a new logo, a new layout, a new Criterion Collection introduction at the beginning of each film . . . Criterionphiles are awaiting this one with baited breath, indeed.
Yes, that confirms it. He's more concerned about Criterion's new intro than in the Six Moral Tales themselves. Also, the list price on this 6-disc set is $16.67 per disc. (Discounted price about $10 per disc.) How is this "$10 to $20 more per disc than any other major distributor"? Is WB giving away discs for free? Is Paramount giving you an extra $10 back with your giveway discs? I must have missed those offers.Mike Restaino wrote:But as much as I salivate at the foot of the Criterion altar, it pains me to say that this Rohmer box is not what it should be. This writer dislikes the new intro; it doesn't have the sleek, mercurial class of the previous highlighted white line Criterion preface. But that's the least of my worries with this release. To be perfectly honest, even in Criterion terms (the company typically charges $10 or $20 more per disc than any other major distributor), you'll be paying too much for this set.
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kinjitsu
- Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 pm
- Location: Uffa!
Slant's Keith Uhlich gives the set a very high rating, and cites this forum and DVD Beaver re: the pictureboxing issue.
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Anonymous
My Night with Maud was shot in BW (if I remember correctly from one rare interview with Rohmer) in order for the setting, a snow-clad town of Clermont, to have a big impact on the picture. As a matter of fact, I remember Rohmer delayed shooting of the film for one year, in order to shoot the Christmas Eve Mass on Christmas Eve! The wintery setting was deliberate, and so was the choice of film used. I can add to myself that bw film gorgeously underlines difference between the two women in this film -- sultry brunette Maud and waif blonde Marie.
can't wait to get my copy of the boxed set from Amazon...
can't wait to get my copy of the boxed set from Amazon...
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Anonymous
i like Armond :0 ever since I read Slate's end of year movie discussion where he praised 'THe Flight of the Phoenix', of all moviestavernier wrote:Armond White? He's the LaBute of critics - why oh why does he have any credibility?What A Disgrace wrote:new essays by Geoff Andrew, Ginette Vincendeau, Phillip Lopate, Kent Jones, Molly Haskell, and Armond White
He's definitely got a talent for unorthodox and idiosyncratic opinions.-
Anonymous
oh my god, having a film class in Rohmer would probably be an incredible experience. are you a film major? i'd be in heaven if i could take class like that.fliggil wrote:Looking forward to picking this up, I'm taking a course in fall, of which half of the semester will be entirely devoted to studying Rohmer. This set looks great, but can anyone recommend any additional readings or any particularly good releases of other films that might include documentaries or booklets about Rohmer? Trying to take in as much as I can and be as prepared as possible for the course.
for more reading on Rohmer, I'd recommend 'The Taste for Beauty', a boon on Rohmer, which i read in my university's library. It's hard to find, but very very good, a rare look at cinema's most elusive genius.
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Anonymous
especially at $69.99 on Amazon, this boxed set is a must-have.toiletduck! wrote:The reviewer works for DVDFile...gigimonagas wrote:Like the reviewer said, this set could've easily been a three discer. Probably the best features are the books, so I'll give it a buy anyway. Don't get me wrong, I love Rohmer's moral tales, especially Chloe in the Afternoon and Clair's Knee.
Four features, two shorter films, six shorts, and three hours of interviews on three discs? But hey, for the sake of argument, somehow slide that onto three discs, add two books, and the thing still retails for $33 a disc -- still lower tier prices for what is obviously not a lower-tier release. I fail to see how this release, economically speaking, is anything but a great value.
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solent
uicukie's info on the filming of MAUD explains why #3 was filmed after #4. What interests me - and I don't know if Rohmer talks about this - is of how Rohmer sticks to his 'literary' plan of the tales despite the logistics of filming. If COLLECTIONNEUSE was #3 I wouldn't have noticed but it obviously meant something to Rohmer. Is there a progressive theme from film to film that merits watching III before IV?
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Toxicologist
- Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:16 am
Well, after my initial post i've very easily come to the conclusion 'overly harsh' and consequently all credibility i may have (mis)placed in DVD File has flown right out the window....
Another glowing review in light of the umpteen positive remarks you have all made.
Another glowing review in light of the umpteen positive remarks you have all made.
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numediaman2
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:51 pm
I received the box set today -- happy birthday to me! (and it's not even my birthday)
This is one of those sets that one doesn't even need to pop a DVD into the player to know this is something special. The books are fantastic, etc. etc.
The only drawback I can think of is that the box itself is flimsy. Big deal.
Then you start putting in the DVDs . . . .
Well, I have to agree with the sentiment already expressed here and in print: this is one of those sets that are essential -- and definitely rewarded those who bought on pre-order. Sometimes its worth trusting Criterion that they will do a great job.
This is one of those sets that one doesn't even need to pop a DVD into the player to know this is something special. The books are fantastic, etc. etc.
The only drawback I can think of is that the box itself is flimsy. Big deal.
Then you start putting in the DVDs . . . .
Well, I have to agree with the sentiment already expressed here and in print: this is one of those sets that are essential -- and definitely rewarded those who bought on pre-order. Sometimes its worth trusting Criterion that they will do a great job.
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colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
I've finished the boxset now - just got to read the book! I thought I'd finish posting my thoughts on the films.
After wondering where the framing woman was going in the series it was amazing to see her front and centre in this one. Perhaps that was the intention - make her so distant in the previous couple of films so that you would focus more on the women that the man had the infatuation with. Then when not only does the framing woman reappear in Love In The Afternoon, but she and the man have had a child, you don't automatically hate him for even considering abandoning his wife and child, since you've been considering the idea of leaving one woman for another in safer, less extreme situations.
This is also the only film in which the framing woman's presence is felt in every scene. There's the possibility that she could run into Frederic and Chloe at any moment (and probably would in a more conventional film), but like the rest of the series her knowledge of the situation and our wonderings about the way she would react are left ambiguous. Does she know everything, has had affairs, but is mostly just waiting for Frederic to tire and return to her? Does she know nothing about Frederic and Chloe, has had affairs herself, and just feels guilty? Or does she know nothing, had no affair of her own and just feels moved by his tenderness at the end of the film? Is the English nanny there for pure child caring reasons, or as a way of Helene providing extra marital aid close by so Frederic doesn't have to go out and get it? It does feel like an interesting link up with Bakery Girl, since there we are also left wondering how much Sylvie has seen, how much she's understood what has gone on, and how much she really cares anyway.
Compared to La Collectioneuse or Claire's Knee where the framing woman is in a different country during the film, or My Night At Maud's where Francoise is only approached after the night with Maud, allowing her to be spoken of as an ideal or creation of Jean-Louis rather than as an actual person, Helene is startlingly present perhaps reflecting how beginning a family concretises relationships and responsibilities even more than love.
I wanted to also say how much I enjoyed the short films. All were excellent but I particularly liked Nadja In Paris and A Modern Coed - fascinating for their presentation of life at the time, but I also liked Presentation and especially Charlotte and Her Dunce done in a more classical style. It reminded me of struggling with maths and I'm still not very good now! Am I right in thinking that the problem they struggle with in the film about the result of multiplying fractions together being bigger than the original numbers comes about because the fractions are less than 1? And that if they are both 0.whatever the result will come out larger? If it was multiplying a number larger than one with a decimal, the result would be smaller?
The Curve seemed a strange choice since it is so modern, but I was really glad it was included and that I saw it before Love In The Afternoon, since the perfect curve came up a couple of times in that film, especially near the end with Frederic and Chloe. It was also a beautiful film in it's own right, as fascinated with female nakedness and breasts as Kaneto Shindo, so watch out Narshty!
The essay booklet was also excellent and gave me a lot of different perspectives and interpretations of the series. I particularly liked Philip Lopate and Molly Haskell's essays, but there was much to enjoy about all of them. I even got asked about it by someone sitting next to me on the train last week, who wanted to know what the pictures were from!
After wondering where the framing woman was going in the series it was amazing to see her front and centre in this one. Perhaps that was the intention - make her so distant in the previous couple of films so that you would focus more on the women that the man had the infatuation with. Then when not only does the framing woman reappear in Love In The Afternoon, but she and the man have had a child, you don't automatically hate him for even considering abandoning his wife and child, since you've been considering the idea of leaving one woman for another in safer, less extreme situations.
This is also the only film in which the framing woman's presence is felt in every scene. There's the possibility that she could run into Frederic and Chloe at any moment (and probably would in a more conventional film), but like the rest of the series her knowledge of the situation and our wonderings about the way she would react are left ambiguous. Does she know everything, has had affairs, but is mostly just waiting for Frederic to tire and return to her? Does she know nothing about Frederic and Chloe, has had affairs herself, and just feels guilty? Or does she know nothing, had no affair of her own and just feels moved by his tenderness at the end of the film? Is the English nanny there for pure child caring reasons, or as a way of Helene providing extra marital aid close by so Frederic doesn't have to go out and get it? It does feel like an interesting link up with Bakery Girl, since there we are also left wondering how much Sylvie has seen, how much she's understood what has gone on, and how much she really cares anyway.
Compared to La Collectioneuse or Claire's Knee where the framing woman is in a different country during the film, or My Night At Maud's where Francoise is only approached after the night with Maud, allowing her to be spoken of as an ideal or creation of Jean-Louis rather than as an actual person, Helene is startlingly present perhaps reflecting how beginning a family concretises relationships and responsibilities even more than love.
I wanted to also say how much I enjoyed the short films. All were excellent but I particularly liked Nadja In Paris and A Modern Coed - fascinating for their presentation of life at the time, but I also liked Presentation and especially Charlotte and Her Dunce done in a more classical style. It reminded me of struggling with maths and I'm still not very good now! Am I right in thinking that the problem they struggle with in the film about the result of multiplying fractions together being bigger than the original numbers comes about because the fractions are less than 1? And that if they are both 0.whatever the result will come out larger? If it was multiplying a number larger than one with a decimal, the result would be smaller?
The Curve seemed a strange choice since it is so modern, but I was really glad it was included and that I saw it before Love In The Afternoon, since the perfect curve came up a couple of times in that film, especially near the end with Frederic and Chloe. It was also a beautiful film in it's own right, as fascinated with female nakedness and breasts as Kaneto Shindo, so watch out Narshty!
The essay booklet was also excellent and gave me a lot of different perspectives and interpretations of the series. I particularly liked Philip Lopate and Molly Haskell's essays, but there was much to enjoy about all of them. I even got asked about it by someone sitting next to me on the train last week, who wanted to know what the pictures were from!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Matango
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:19 am
- Location: Hong Kong
I was waiting for this one "with baited [sic] breath", too. Totally satisfied, except for a lack of any background info/intro on the short films. I want to know who "Nadja in Paris" was, and where she is now, etc. I'm not through all the extras yet, but it doesn't look like any of them will cover this.
Just an aside, and sorry if this has been said elsewhere, but it's uncanny how CC has ditched years of logo recognition for something mediocre. A bit like Mercedes or BMW losing their logos. Also, the C is really obstructing the image on this box front.
Just an aside, and sorry if this has been said elsewhere, but it's uncanny how CC has ditched years of logo recognition for something mediocre. A bit like Mercedes or BMW losing their logos. Also, the C is really obstructing the image on this box front.
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jorencain
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:45 am
I have nothing more of substance to add to the previous comments, but I just made it through the set and loved all of the films. Of these, I had only seen "Love In The Afternoon" previously, so it has a special place in my heart. I think it's the strongest of all 6, but just barely. "My Night At Maud's" was a stand-out also.
I also enjoyed the cameos by the women from the previous moral tales in "Love In The Afternoon", when he's exercising his imaginary superpowers.
I can only agree with all of the positive things that have been said about this set. I just need to finish reading those essays, but I'm almost there...
By the way, did anyone else notice the boom operator in one of the shots in "Love In The Afternoon"? It's about 47' into the film, when they break into Chloe's old apartment to get her stuff. He's up in the upper left corner for several seconds.
I also enjoyed the cameos by the women from the previous moral tales in "Love In The Afternoon", when he's exercising his imaginary superpowers.
I can only agree with all of the positive things that have been said about this set. I just need to finish reading those essays, but I'm almost there...
By the way, did anyone else notice the boom operator in one of the shots in "Love In The Afternoon"? It's about 47' into the film, when they break into Chloe's old apartment to get her stuff. He's up in the upper left corner for several seconds.
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colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
I've only done a quick search so far, but I thought I'd look up more on Blaise Pascal. I did find the On Pascal programme threw me into the discussion of Pascal at the deep end and I was wondering if anyone could provide me with an introduction to the ideas raised. I've found a biography of Pascal and a wesbite that has an English translation of Pensées as a start!
This isn't really a criticism of the programme as I'm sure it was intended for use as a teaching aid after Pascal was introduced (or the discussion in My Night At Maud's, since it is between characters extremely familiar with Pascal), and I also think it was a great inclusion in the boxset, but I'm a person who is a little slow in getting my head around complex ideas!
It is actually refreshing to find myself watching a complex discussion compared to seeing many programmes which seem to treat their audience either like idiots or never get past introducing their subject!
EDIT: Pensées sounds fascinating already and seems to be shedding light on the principles of the Moral Tales:
This isn't really a criticism of the programme as I'm sure it was intended for use as a teaching aid after Pascal was introduced (or the discussion in My Night At Maud's, since it is between characters extremely familiar with Pascal), and I also think it was a great inclusion in the boxset, but I'm a person who is a little slow in getting my head around complex ideas!
It is actually refreshing to find myself watching a complex discussion compared to seeing many programmes which seem to treat their audience either like idiots or never get past introducing their subject!
EDIT: Pensées sounds fascinating already and seems to be shedding light on the principles of the Moral Tales:
Section 1: Thoughts On Mind and On Style
3. Those who are accustomed to judge by feeling do not understand the process of reasoning, for they would understand at first sight and are not used to seek for principles. And others, on the contrary, who are accustomed to reason from principles, do not at all understand matters of feeling, seeking principles and being unable to see at a glance.
4. Mathematics, intuition.-- True eloquence makes light of eloquence, true morality makes light of morality; that is to say, the morality of the judgement, which has no rules, makes light of the morality of the intellect.
For it is to judgement that perception belongs, as science belongs to intellect. Intuition is the part of judgement, mathematics of intellect.
....
6. Just as we harm the understanding, we harm the feelings also.
The understanding and the feelings are moulded by intercourse; the understanding and feelings are corrupted by intercourse. Thus good or bad society improves or corrupts them. It is, then, all-important to know how to choose in order to improve and not to corrupt them; and we cannot make this choice, if they be not already improved and not corrupted. Thus a circle is formed, and those are fortunate who escape it.