124-128 Carl Theodor Dreyer Box Set

[martin]

Tommaso, I cannot comment on the Image disc, as I have never seen it. However, I do own the disc from DFI, and I think it looks fantastic (I will be happy to post some caps, if you like). The actual running time of the film here is 157 minutes, but unfortunately it does not mention the running speed. All it says is: "HD transfer from a restored duplicate negative." Movement in the film seemed very "natural," if that means anything to you. The film is presented with Danish intertitles and optional English subtitles.

The framerate on the DFI edition of Leaves from Satan's book seems to be corrected to 17-18 fps (rough estimate). So without having seen the Image disc my guess is the Danish edition is not a longer cut.

[Tommaso]

Thanks to both of you, indeed my main problem with the Image disc is that I feel it runs too fast. Just one last question before we go off topic completely: does the DFI have tintings, similar to the Image? I quite liked them on the Image disc.
And you're right, Sharph, I probably can't live without the DFI disc for long, although as I said, this is clearly my least favorite Dreyer. But if my bank account allows, I might jump at it should the Borzage finally materialize at filmmuseum. Their webshop is the easiest and cheapest way to get DFI discs in Germany. And btw: I dearly need a new bookrack as well...

[miless]

These earlier Dreyer films would make a perfect Eclipse set. They don't have the clout or following of his later works, but they would be invaluable to anyone interested in world cinema (same goes with Mexican Buñuel).

[Tommaso]

Incidentally, the Mexican Bunuels have just been released in Germany in a 5-disc-set. Only with German subs, as was to be expected, but apparently quality is very good. Otherwise, I second the Dreyer/Eclipse suggestion, but as "Leaves" and "The Parson's Widow" are held by Image and "Michael" by Kino, such a box should contain "Die Gezeichneten" and "The Bride of Glomdal" at the least to make it attractive.

[zedz]

Zedz, of course I forgot "Two people", as almost everyone seems to when discussing Dreyer. I've never seen it, of course, but would be really interested, needless to say. The film has been dismissed by Dreyer and by critics alike,but still I cannot imagine that Dreyer would even have been ABLE to produce something outright bad.

Ditto and ditto, though the "how bad can it be?" approach has led me into some truly awful filmgoing experiences in the past.

Talking about re-evaluating Dreyer works: the only Dreyer I've seen that didn't exactly blow me away was "Leaves from Satan's books", though it's still not quite clear to me WHY.

And ditto again. Of all the Dreyer films I've seen, this seems the most anonymous, and I'm sure its derivative nature plays a large part of that (Intolerance-by-numbers), but I don't even see much in the way of personalised grace notes. It's as if this was strictly an assignment for Dreyer.

As for first encounters, mine was Gertrud, and I was just hypnotised. It was early in my world cinema explorations and I'd never seen anything like it: it seemed to run forever and yet end too soon. At the time, I attributed its strangeness to my lack of experience. The same went for The Colour of Pomegranates and Three Crowns of a Sailor, seen at around the same time, and I was dead wrong on all three counts.

[Tommaso]

Ditto and ditto, though the "how bad can it be?" approach has led me into some truly awful filmgoing experiences in the past.

Yes, but it seldom happens with directors that you generally think are great. My favourite example for this rare occasion is Greenaway's "8 1/2 women"... I never thought it could be THAT bad, but it was.

As for first encounters, mine was Gertrud, and I was just hypnotised. It was early in my world cinema explorations and I'd never seen anything like it: it seemed to run forever and yet end too soon. At the time, I attributed its strangeness to my lack of experience.

Me too, but unless I still lack a lot of experience, it must be the film... Your description of "Gertrud" is most to the point. Perhaps the film only works if you indeed let yourself be hypnotized by it. If you try to analyze it while watching or even only try to distance yourself a little from what is going on, its slowness and bleakness becomes unbearable. A little like late Beckett, but without the laughter.... A one-of-a-kind film, and if anything, I'm amazed by Dreyer's daring. He became more uncompromising with any new film he directed. I really wonder how his "Jesus of Nazareth"-project would have turned out.

On the other hand, I was instantly hypnotized and loved "Pomegranates", and it happens again every time I re-watch it. I've never seen "Three Crowns", nor, for that matter, anything by Ruiz. Probably a true gap...

[Michael Kerpan]

Ruiz -- Take a look at his funniest film (black humor, to be sure) -- Ce jour la (That Day) -- set in Switzerland it invokes Friedrich Durrematt and Alain Tanner.

[tryavna]

Adam, if you haven't already bought Criterion's Dreyer boxset, don't. Go with the four BFI releases instead (Master of the House, Day of Wrath, Ordet, and Gertrud). Apart from the incorrect aspect ration on Criterion's version of Gertrud, which has already been mentioned here, the BFI titles boast far more essential extras, including the same feature docu on Dreyer's career, a fine commentary by Caspar Tyberg on Day of Wrath, and most importantly seven of Dreyer's short films (five of which are otherwise unavailable anywhere).

BTW, I'm not advising you NOT to own the films in one form or another. But the BFIs are the way to go.


Also, I agree with Zedz and Tommaso re. Leaves from Satan's Book. Zedz put it well: it's a very "anonymous" film, obviously made while Dreyer was still the under the spell of Griffith. There are a few nice Dreyer-esque moments: the self-flaggelation scene, a very sympathetic Satan character, etc. But it doesn't give much indication of Dreyer's genius.

[Adam]

I haven't yet. Let me see if I can find a cost effective manner to get the BFI versions.

[What A Disgrace]

I haven't yet. Let me see if I can find a cost effective manner to get the BFI versions.

I suggest CDWow; if they can manage to ship them in time. Three of the four titles are sporting prices less than $23; with Day of Wrath being about $27. And Used & New on Amazon UK can be pretty good to you...its how I got three of the four titles.

My only ever complaint about BFI is that their premium priced discs; unlike Optimum, Tartan, Artificial Eye, Eureka and most any other label in the UK...generally don't stray below 75% of retail price at online stores.

[Solaris]

The BFI discs will be released in Australia next month, additional extras include essays and commentaries by Aussie film scholars. They are $35AUD which may be a cheaper alternative for those wishing to import the BFI discs.

[martin]

Just one last question before we go off topic completely: does the DFI have tintings, similar to the Image? I quite liked them on the Image disc.

No, there's no tinting on the DFI disc of Leaves From Satan's Book.

[Adam]

I haven't yet. Let me see if I can find a cost effective manner to get the BFI versions.

I suggest CDWow; if they can manage to ship them in time. Three of the four titles are sporting prices less than $23; with Day of Wrath being about $27. And Used & New on Amazon UK can be pretty good to you...its how I got three of the four titles.

My only ever complaint about BFI is that their premium priced discs; unlike Optimum, Tartan, Artificial Eye, Eureka and most any other label in the UK...generally don't stray below 75% of retail price at online stores.

Well, I'm in no hurry, so I can wait for the best price and can wait for weeks before it arrives.

[tryavna]

Adam, if you use this CD-Wow! link and search for Ordet and Gertrud, you can pick up each for less than $15. So you might want to take advantage of that sooner rather than later.

Day of Wrath and Master of the House are somewhat more expensive, but still within a pretty decent price range, since you won't have to pay extra for shipping.

[Gregory]

According to the DVDBeaver comparison of Gertrud it looks like the BFI DVD got closer to the correct ratio of 1.66:1 by cropping quite a bit away from the sides, and only a slight amount of the information lost in Criterion's 1.78:1 transfer is visible. So it doesn't really seem like the BFI is much of an improvement, because the issue isn't the aspect ratio per se if a transfer is missing too much visual information on all four sides.

[martin]

The image below shows how Gertrud BFi vs. Criterion is cropped (Green: Criterion; Red: Bfi):



(Based on the screenshots from DVDBeaver - I hope it's all right, Gary).

[Adam]

Adam, if you use this CD-Wow! link and search for Ordet and Gertrud, you can pick up each for less than $15. So you might want to take advantage of that sooner rather than later.

Day of Wrath and Master of the House are somewhat more expensive, but still within a pretty decent price range, since you won't have to pay extra for shipping.

Thank you for the lead. I took advantage of it, and got a couple of other BFI titles as well also at $15 (one of the Mitchell & Kenyon volumes, for example). Free shipping from the UK. I wonder how long it will take to Los Angeles.

[denti alligator]

So they're both cropped...?

[martin]

So they're both cropped...?

Probably. But it's quite complicated because a DVD (like the Criterion) may show more to the sides of the picture than should be projected in the cinema. This is because the negative area is 0.866" wide while the projected area should only be 0.825".

But the differences are quite small anyway. I don't think the cropping issue should decide which version of Gertrud one should buy (but I'd say Bfi is closest to the intended ratio if I should pick just one!).

[MichaelB]

So they're both cropped...?

Probably. But it's quite complicated because a DVD (like the Criterion) may show more to the sides of the picture than should be projected in the cinema. This is because the negative area is 0.866" wide while the projected area should only be 0.825".

But the differences are quite small anyway.

Effectively, they're negligible. In virtually all cases, at least that much would have been masked off in most normal 35mm projection situations, and Dreyer (or at least his cinematographer) must have been aware of this when composing the images in the first place.

[zedz]

Very interesting. I'd never realised that a significant part of the 'wrong' aspect ratio on the Criterion was extra information on the sides.

[Tommaso]

Indeed! And the fact that most of what is cut off in the Criterion is at the bottom explains why I never found the wrong AR disturbing (no excuse for Criterion, of course).

[zedz]

(no excuse for Criterion, of course)

Well, isn't the stipulation and approval of this framing by the cinematographer their 'excuse'? We may not like the decision (see also, probably even more problematically, the 'Planet Storaro' version of The Last Emperor), but they've certainly got a leg to stand on.

[kaujot]

Ordet is added to Roger Ebert's Great Movies.

[miless]

I like how Ebert skips over Day of Wrath and attributes Vampyr to the 40's... His argument would still be proven (and he could simplify his argument to 'one film every deacade').

Couldn't he look this shit up on imdb?