174 Band of Outsiders
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Just over 35 minutes. I was worried too but found once the discussion got going it was quite enlightening discussing the ideas of the "Band of Outsiders" being outsiders and isolated from each other as well as the wider society, thinking they know what the others are thinking and feeling, but really not (for example the conflicting voiceovers or the different dance styles showing how out of synch they are, and the way this plays into the opening titles with the 'false linkages' between characters created only through the editing). Or the 'minute of silence' being an unproductive one tying into the way that the characters are playing at criminal behaviour without actually working towards making any particularly well thought out plans of action (and could maybe be a comment on Rififi's long and intricate heist sequence showing competent professionals at work), turning it into a kind of Thomas Crown Affair/Ocean's Eleven caper film rather than a heist film. Also the way the film is an attempt to mix up over familiar noir archetypes to create a new and exciting film.
Of course how enlightening this all seems will likely depend on how much you have previously thought about the film itself! I had not watched Band of Outsiders for a while so the podcast helped to reignite my interest in it (now if only there was a podcast discussion somewhere on A Woman Is A Woman or Alphaville, two films I really have difficulty engaging with!)
EDIT: Here is an interesting essay by Jonathan Rosenbaum on the film.
Of course how enlightening this all seems will likely depend on how much you have previously thought about the film itself! I had not watched Band of Outsiders for a while so the podcast helped to reignite my interest in it (now if only there was a podcast discussion somewhere on A Woman Is A Woman or Alphaville, two films I really have difficulty engaging with!)
EDIT: Here is an interesting essay by Jonathan Rosenbaum on the film.
- dad1153
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
- Location: New York, NY
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
It was an all-French weekend for me this Memorial Day Weekend. Besides seeing Godard's "Vivre Sa Vie" and Tati's "PlayTime" on Blu-ray I also caught a midnight screening of Caro/Jeunet's "The City of Lost Children" (it was OK) and "Two in the Wave" (documentary about the Truffaut/Godard friendship before, during and toward the end of the 'New French Wave'... think Godard/Truffaut porn! ). No movie gave me more pleasure and I'm more likely to revisit as often as Godard's "Band of Outsiders," which I caught on Criterion DVD for the first time over the weekend.
Finally, after watching Godard's anti-establishment filmmaking techniques blunt the potentially-explosive fun of "Pierrot le feu" (and my first viewing of "Vivre sa vie") "Band of Outsiders" is bursting with so much fun, energy and chemistry between its leads that not even Jean-Luc's intellectual pretentiousness can stop it from being a charming audience-pleasing lark. Godard's mise-en-scène actually complements the action (i.e. the VO explanation of how the characters really feel while pretending they form a perfect dancing unit) rather than distract from it. Karina (gorgeus and energetic), Samie Frey (cast against type) and Claude Brasseur (who steals the flick in a role that would be played for idiot-sidekick laughs in an American flick) make a clueless and inept but thoroughly charming and amusing trio whose crime caper is doomed from the start even though they don't know it (but we do because we're the audience ). The time we spend with these three before, during and after their attempted hit (with each other or when one of them is alone with one of the remaining two) is hilarious, romantic, unpredictable ('minute of silence') and in its own twisted way exciting... all the emotions we crave for when we go to the movies. When Odile, Franz and Arthur get together to dance The Madison in synch "Band of Brothers," like "Pierrot le fou's" 'My Fate Line' musical number, cracks my Top Ten greatest musical moments in movies I've ever seen (pretty good feats for anti-musical musical Godard scenes in non-musical movies). I don't have a favorite Godard flick (I like pieces/moments from all of his movies I've seen) but this one I can picture myself coming back to often just to enjoy the fun. You can rarely say about many of Jean-Luc's other movies.
Finally, after watching Godard's anti-establishment filmmaking techniques blunt the potentially-explosive fun of "Pierrot le feu" (and my first viewing of "Vivre sa vie") "Band of Outsiders" is bursting with so much fun, energy and chemistry between its leads that not even Jean-Luc's intellectual pretentiousness can stop it from being a charming audience-pleasing lark. Godard's mise-en-scène actually complements the action (i.e. the VO explanation of how the characters really feel while pretending they form a perfect dancing unit) rather than distract from it. Karina (gorgeus and energetic), Samie Frey (cast against type) and Claude Brasseur (who steals the flick in a role that would be played for idiot-sidekick laughs in an American flick) make a clueless and inept but thoroughly charming and amusing trio whose crime caper is doomed from the start even though they don't know it (but we do because we're the audience ). The time we spend with these three before, during and after their attempted hit (with each other or when one of them is alone with one of the remaining two) is hilarious, romantic, unpredictable ('minute of silence') and in its own twisted way exciting... all the emotions we crave for when we go to the movies. When Odile, Franz and Arthur get together to dance The Madison in synch "Band of Brothers," like "Pierrot le fou's" 'My Fate Line' musical number, cracks my Top Ten greatest musical moments in movies I've ever seen (pretty good feats for anti-musical musical Godard scenes in non-musical movies). I don't have a favorite Godard flick (I like pieces/moments from all of his movies I've seen) but this one I can picture myself coming back to often just to enjoy the fun. You can rarely say about many of Jean-Luc's other movies.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
This is why we can't delete smilies:dad1153 wrote:[...]this one I can picture myself coming back to often just to enjoy the fun. You can rarely say about many of Jean-Luc's other movies.
One of the great things about Godard's films is that they reward repeat viewing, and most people would say that far more than rarely about 'em
- dad1153
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
- Location: New York, NY
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
^^^ But are they having fun just watching the movie and losing themselves with it? Or are they rewatching Godard because they have to in order to 'get' the movie on repeat viewing? I feel like I have to rewatch "Contempt" and "Vivre Sa Vie" a few more times just to 'get' the jist of what the director is throwing at me. With "Band of Outsiders" I can ignore the Godard-isms and actually settle down to, you know, enjoy the flick for the fun time it is despite of (not because of) Godard. Different strokes for different folks I guess... WOOOOOOOT!
- Kirkinson
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:34 am
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Band of Outsiders has the opposite effect on me. I used to think it was one of Godard's lighter, more purely enjoyable movies, but every time I see it, it seems darker and more tragic, the humor less fun and more twisted (e.g., the scene where they read all those headlines in the paper and its placement in the larger conext of the film). I think this is especially true if one pays close attention to what Anna Karina's character goes through: the way she's treated by the men, how she's used, the fear and panic that grows in her eyes as the plot unfolds, until at the end any sense of dignity, ethics, or even personal will has been obliterated. (I think the same thing happens to Sami Frey, too, except that he's a much more active force in his own descent and doesn't seem to have any qualms about it.)
So while I would say that yes, I do find a great many Godard films, even his later ones, rewatchable for personal enjoyment (among other things), Band of Outsiders is actually an exception. It still rewards repeat viewings, but in a very different way. Different strokes indeed.
So while I would say that yes, I do find a great many Godard films, even his later ones, rewatchable for personal enjoyment (among other things), Band of Outsiders is actually an exception. It still rewards repeat viewings, but in a very different way. Different strokes indeed.
- leo_floyd
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:09 pm
- Location: Argentina
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
As long as Criterion have already released À bout de Souffle, Vivre sa Vie and Pierrot le Fou on Blu-Ray, I think Bande á Part should be the next Godard's title we should have on Blu.
Do you agree, or would prefer other of his titles that are already on DVD?
Do you agree, or would prefer other of his titles that are already on DVD?
-
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:58 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
I'd certainly have no beef with "Bande", but I'm so certain they'll upgrade "Two or Three Things..." eventually that I flat out refuse to buy the DVD.
-
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Doesn't ignoring the Godard-isms kind of defeat the purpose of watching a Godard film?
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Even if they don't, I'm wondering how much the Blu will be able to improve upon the DVD. I watched the latter again recently and was still impressed by how good it looked, especially considering the transfer is ten years old (not to say Criterion wasn't consistently giving us excellent transfers in 2003). I love the film but will hold onto my DVD and wait for reviews.
- movielocke
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
From the site:david hare wrote:God forbid they transport the hideous DVNR scrubbed master as released by Gaumont last year. Total shit.
• New digital master of Gaumont’s recent high-definition restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Was the DVNR in the mastering or already a part of the HD master? Maybe Criterion will answer.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
I watched this only last week and was quite cold to it, and it's probably the Godard film I've enjoyed the least out of the five or six I've seen from his sixties output. It reminded me of Fassbinder's Liebe ist kälter als dem Tod, which I prefer and found a more consistant film, even if parts of Godard's film are far more memorable. Pulp Fiction also sprung to mind and that isn't anything I'm a fan of.
Perhaps I'll pick this up and give it another chance down the line but it's a pity that they didn't bring the Gaumont interviews over. There's two hours worth of stuff there.
Perhaps I'll pick this up and give it another chance down the line but it's a pity that they didn't bring the Gaumont interviews over. There's two hours worth of stuff there.
-
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
I hope that the french people from dvdclassik will ask this to M.Jérome Soulet from Gaumont in the Gaumont or blu-ray Gaumont thread on DVDclassik.hearthesilence wrote:Was the DVNR in the mastering or already a part of the HD master? Maybe Criterion will answer.
What I hope is that Criterion bought to Gaumont a "pre-Gaumont touch" restored master (so-pre DNR; the restoration was great if you look at the screenshot of the Gaumont blu-ray on blu-ray.com for instance).
• It is possible that the deal with Gaumont was a "you get the Gaumont HD master" or "nothing" (the case of les Enfants du Paradis). In that case, with the precedent of Les Enfants du Paradis, Criterion should have say "no". I cross the fingers, incatations, burns candles, etc.. hoping that it is not the scenario.
I already own the Criterion DVD. The bonus are great (I really enjoy the one with all the references and details in the movie to Truffaut, writer, quotes, etc...) and it's odd but on the menu DVD Godard with glasses looks like John Lennon- I've never think about it in the past... (there's a nice short meeting of J-L Godard and Lennon you can see on youteub by the way)
Well, I would have pre-ordered this blu-ray upgrade (eyes closed) if there wasn't the "Gaumont touch" problem...
so I will waiting for the first blu-ray captures.
I'm also looking forward "Un Condamné à Mort" s'est échappé blu-ray in order to see if Criterion got from Gaumont a pre-"Gaumont touch" master...
but contrary to "Band of Outsiders", there's no mention of Gaumont in the transfer "New 2K digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition" for "A Man Escape"
- Max von Mayerling
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:02 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
One can only hope Criterion's choice of words is deliberate - "New digital master of Gaumont's recent high-definition restoration." As in, a new digital master has been created for Criterion's purposes. But I'm not going to count on it.
For example, the Children of Paradise page just says "pathe's 2011 restoration of the film, ... ." But I'm probably reading too much into their choice of words in the description for Band of Outsiders.
For example, the Children of Paradise page just says "pathe's 2011 restoration of the film, ... ." But I'm probably reading too much into their choice of words in the description for Band of Outsiders.
- andyli
- Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:46 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
blu-ray.com. It has more grain than the Gaumont blu-ray!
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
The Gaumont looks to be a much better job of utilizing DNR than Children of Paradise, but I am glad that the Criterion is less scrubbed up.
- ryannichols7
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
what's sad is that the Gaumont is a must buy due to those interviews
Criterion's extras are sparse
Criterion's extras are sparse
- Jeff
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
But only if you understand French.ryannichols7 wrote:the Gaumont is a must buy due to those interviews
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
DVDBeaver on the Bluray.
This is the first Godard film saw more than 10 years ago. Although the Blu-ray captures look nice, I'm surprised how well the old DVD still holds up.
This is the first Godard film saw more than 10 years ago. Although the Blu-ray captures look nice, I'm surprised how well the old DVD still holds up.
- Red Screamer
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:34 pm
- Location: Tativille, IA
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
A Romeo & Juliet reference is prominent here and in Breathless. This paired with the recurring deaths of main characters in early Godard suggests a major influence that has gone relatively under the radar. Has anyone else noticed more references/influence in Godard's other work?
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Question for anyone who has the Criterion Blu-ray or the French Gaumont:
Around 19 minutes - 20 minutes in when Arthur and Odile are talking during a break from English class, does the black and white suddenly turn slightly green or purple in hue?
Around 19 minutes - 20 minutes in when Arthur and Odile are talking during a break from English class, does the black and white suddenly turn slightly green or purple in hue?
- PfR73
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
I don't notice anything of that sort on the Criterion Blu-Ray
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: 174 Band of Outsiders
Neither do I.
Also, I saw the DCP restoration playing at Film Forum. Came back home hours later and popped in the Criterion Blu-Ray for comparison (which again notes that it's derived from the 2010 Gaumont restoration), and honestly, it looks like it could have been the same exact restoration. It's not, but it looks very, very similar.
The only thing that's different is that the DCP might have a bit less grain. I'm not sure at all, but while watching the DCP, I do recall that during the same scene mentioned in the last two posts (20 minutes in when Arthur and Odile are talking during a break from English class), the film looked so clean, it almost felt like a video recording. It didn't look blocky or waxy, the details were very fine, but the texture itself looked really, really clean. On the BD, the grain is noticeable, but it was still a very clean looking image, especially for a film of this vintage, so who knows, it's possibly the way it was originally.
Also, I saw the DCP restoration playing at Film Forum. Came back home hours later and popped in the Criterion Blu-Ray for comparison (which again notes that it's derived from the 2010 Gaumont restoration), and honestly, it looks like it could have been the same exact restoration. It's not, but it looks very, very similar.
The only thing that's different is that the DCP might have a bit less grain. I'm not sure at all, but while watching the DCP, I do recall that during the same scene mentioned in the last two posts (20 minutes in when Arthur and Odile are talking during a break from English class), the film looked so clean, it almost felt like a video recording. It didn't look blocky or waxy, the details were very fine, but the texture itself looked really, really clean. On the BD, the grain is noticeable, but it was still a very clean looking image, especially for a film of this vintage, so who knows, it's possibly the way it was originally.