536 The Thin Red Line
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
They actually were in a movie together, a little thriller called Thursday. It's definitely a Tarantino-pastiche mixed in with some good moments by both leads.
- JamesF
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
The UK VHS - which I've still held onto after all these years - had a 30-minute making of documentary that is unfortunately missing from this. Mainly EPK fluff, and of course no sign of Malick, but even so, had some tantalising (if very brief) glimpses into a few deleted scenes.
- Matango
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
He's more than worth watching in Stander. A great performance in a terrific film.MyNameCriterionForum wrote:Thanks for the confirmation. Jane's a good, likeable character actor. I keep hearing that he's worth watching in Stander...
- jbeall
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
I've had the Fox War Classics dvd of The Thin Red Line in my kevyip for years (probably due to my feeling decidedly underwhelmed by Days of Heaven and The New World), and I finally took it out and watched it yesterday. Now I'm wondering what took me so long! This was my favorite Malick film by far. Stunningly beautiful images, of course (several of which are burned into my memory now), but enough of a narrative to keep me from getting fidgety. Plus, there are some really good performances (esp. Nick Nolte). Moreover, I think the voiceovers fit the aesthetic of this film far better than they do in The New World, for example.
Again, I definitely wouldn't count myself among Malick's fans, and I'm probably too ADD to really appreciate languorous films, generally speaking, but now I really wish I had watched this in theaters instead of SPR. This is really a remarkable film.
Again, I definitely wouldn't count myself among Malick's fans, and I'm probably too ADD to really appreciate languorous films, generally speaking, but now I really wish I had watched this in theaters instead of SPR. This is really a remarkable film.
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
This is the voice of Tolstoy's narrator in his Sebastopol Sketches, "What is that voice in nature ?" sounds like a direct quote.jbeall wrote:Moreover, I think the voiceovers fit the aesthetic of this film far better than they do in The New World, for example.
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
It truly is. I'm not saying this to rub it in at all but I was lucky enough to see TTRL 4 (yes 4) times in the theater in early 1999. This movie affected me on so many levels and it's one of only two movies I have ever seen more than once in a theater (the other being Martin Scorsese's GoodFellas). It is sumptous on the big screen. Maybe one day Fox will do a traveling film festival like Columbia did in the late 90's and show various classics from the vault in select cities for several weeks worth of engagements. I feel, as time goes by, TTRL continues to gain respect and adoration. For those that have the patience to appreciate it.jbeall wrote:Again, I definitely wouldn't count myself among Malick's fans, and I'm probably too ADD to really appreciate languorous films, generally speaking, but now I really wish I had watched this in theaters instead of SPR. This is really a remarkable film.
On to a different topic "Outtakes from the film". I have sent an email to Jon Mulvaney (my first email in years and years to him) so hopefully I get a definitive answer. My question was whether or not "Outtakes from the film" means "Deleted Scenes". I assume that is the case, but you never know.
That said, I just had a thought while posting this that any of those 'outtakes' or 'deleted scenes' will likely only contain footage of the principles that were already in the finished product. The reason for my line of thinking is because of royalties. Having some scenes of Adrian Brody's (which would be splendid) would also (I assume) not cost any extra. As opposed to pulling out the deleted scenes of Mickey Rourke and Lukas Haas, et al.
What is everyone's thought on this?
I really can't wait for September 28th... I took advantage of the B&N deal last week and got Days of Heaven on Blu Ray and Standard, just to whet my appetite.
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- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:33 pm
Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
Hi Jason
As you mentioned, we will be including deleted scenes from the film. However, we're not sure of the the total length of the deleted scenes yet as we're still in the midst of the editing process. And in response to your final question--there is no longer cut . . it is indeed a rumor.
Best,
Jon
- FerdinandGriffon
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Re: Criterion Newsletter (Part 2)
You didn't like Simon of the Desert?Tark wrote:The Thin Red Line is the best Criterion release since Au Hasard Balthazar...
Been quite a drought.
- carax09
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
The listing on the site has been updated with the following:
Perhaps someone could correct me, but wasn't the film screened for critics in early December 1998? And (supposedly) then Malick continued editing before NY & LA release triming an additional 10-15 minutes?
Sounds like they've settled on the outtakes. That's not too bad at all really. Any footage not previously seen is more than welcome to my eyes.Thirteen minutes of outtakes from the film
Perhaps someone could correct me, but wasn't the film screened for critics in early December 1998? And (supposedly) then Malick continued editing before NY & LA release triming an additional 10-15 minutes?
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
They've also removed Ben Chaplin from the interviewees list, and added "Melanesian chants".
- Svevan
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
Those chants are awesome. I have a digital copy of the tie-in CD that was released around the time of the movie (I think five copies total were pressed, har). The best songs are the ones picked by Malick for important parts of the movie, but the whole CD is fabulous. Wonder what Crit will include.
- htom
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:57 pm
Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
These were also found on the first US DVD release.mteller wrote:They've also removed Ben Chaplin from the interviewees list, and added "Melanesian chants".
- kaujot
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
A cellphone pic of their check disc.
- MyNameCriterionForum
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:27 am
Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
There's a poster ("pm2005") over at the IMDB boards who is apparently writing a book (or books) about Malick, and who seems to have reilable first-hand sources about his subject, and as a result often makes some pretty revealing and interesting comments.
I don't know if it's kosher to cut and paste an entire comment (from there) here, but I thought it worthwhile since I imagine many people avoid the IMDB boards, and this was too good to let go:
I don't know if it's kosher to cut and paste an entire comment (from there) here, but I thought it worthwhile since I imagine many people avoid the IMDB boards, and this was too good to let go:
Much has been made about the many hours recorded of Billy Bob's narration. This may be true, but going on John Dee's experiences, those times aren't all spouting original content, but constantly rephrasing the same lines in a variety of ways, with altering reflections and stressing. Thornton's narration was thrown out because Malick didn't want people to be reminded of Thornton's Slingblade character.
Malick is a perfectionist, and he would give out line for Smith to repeat, most of which were made up off of the top of his head, often without any notes to remind him. These were, according to Smith, strictly off-the-cuff voiceovers, and it drove Smith crazy to have to repeat them hour upon hour for many days.
John Dee Smith's recordings took place in Los Angeles after filming during the post-production of the film. Smith also spent time with Malick when he wasn't recording new material, and he would follow Malick around into the editing rooms and watch him look over some of the footage that was being projected on a screen.
Based on what he saw, Malick would come up with new ideas of how he wanted to treat these scenes (pertaining to voiceovers). Simultaneously, Malick was also overseeing with director Leslie Woodhead, the editing of the documentary Endurance of which he was acting as executive producer (the film about Olympic Kenyan runners was his idea). Smith describes Malick as a man with his fingers in everything much to the dismay of the people working on the film.
As the film gestated, he also had Hans Zimmer composing and recording new music, most of which he never ended up using. Smith recalls watching, for example, Mickey Rourke's scene which would have occurred right before Witt comes across the lone soldier sitting alone with a busted knee on the hill. Witt's encounter with Rourke's rogue sniper, by all accounts, was beautifully photographed by Toll with great lines given to Rourke (who admitted it was the best scene he ever acted in). My guess is that it will make the Criterion disc as an outtake.
In the weeks leading to the premier. Smith remembers the film being 5+ hours long, and that Terry wanted to make it the ultimate "Malick Experience" until he was pulled away from the recording sessions by a phone call from the higher-ups.
Seeing the director visibly upset, Smith learned that he was told to cut the film down to "three hours or less" in order to fall in line with contractual demands by theater-chains needing to recoup their profit gains by repeat showings. Now with time slipping through their fingers, Malik and his team began slicing away at the film by taking the approach (and the advice from Mike Medavoy), of reducing the number of characters with conflicting storylines. Gone was Adrien Brody, Rourke, Pullman, Lukas Haas (who dies in combat), extended scenes of Witt and Hoke with the Melanesians, combat sequences, the soldier taking a crap in the saw grass and surprised by the enemy etc etc). Music that did not suit Malick was replaced by Charles Ives and a slew of other more obscure composers. The promotional photos and CD soundtrack booklet and early film trailers do indeed reveal many scenes that are not in the finished film, this isn't an accident. They all would have been in there had not the people purely eying profit as the bottom line and not Malick's art had not interfered. We would have had a film comparable in scale to Bertolucci's 1900 and Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in America (in its original cut).
Needless to say, Malick was not satisfied and did not attend the film's premier. Instead he sat in a little Hollywood diner in his tuxedo a few blocks away from the theater, missing the event altogether.
So, if the film seems a little jumpy with some continuity issues, it isn't wholly because of some Malickian aesthetic, it's because it was sliced and diced to the last hour in order to comply with the . Malick has admitted to another source that there is indeed another version of The Thin Red Line that has been edited etc. Whether it still exists or not is another question.
Admittedly, for much of the filming, Malick was on his own mission, and he answered to nobody. He wasn't accountable to anyone, and his constant conflicts with people like Grant Hill was because they had no idea what he was doing. Malick, truly, had another film in mind. We can only be so lucky to know that he isn't letting that happen with Tree of Life (although if they are asking him to cut it down AGAIN, is just *beep* bogus).
- MyNameCriterionForum
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- Cold Bishop
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
If the smilies page wasn't down, I'd find a better one to express my emotions at that screencap.
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
I read on one of the imdb boards the new transfer will make the old Fox DVD look like a bootleg, that sums it up for me looking at the stills.
I put my order in yesterday. Quick question, will my card be charged when it ships out? It's the first item I've bought on a pre-order and not familiar with how that works exactly.
I put my order in yesterday. Quick question, will my card be charged when it ships out? It's the first item I've bought on a pre-order and not familiar with how that works exactly.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
It sometimes varies subtly between whoever you're buying from, but as a general rule of ethics nobody charges you until they at least have the product in hand.
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
I'm looking forward for this release too, as the film is I think my favourite of all time!.
One thing worries me though: Does anyone know if the English subtitles included will be for hearing impaired only, or there will be plain English too?
Being a foreigner I'd like to read the subtitles to understand better, but if it has only the hearing impaired option, it's a bit annoying for me to read every audio effect. And i believe The Thin red line will have lots of them..
Do the other Criterion releases have only the hearing impaired subtitles?
One thing worries me though: Does anyone know if the English subtitles included will be for hearing impaired only, or there will be plain English too?
Being a foreigner I'd like to read the subtitles to understand better, but if it has only the hearing impaired option, it's a bit annoying for me to read every audio effect. And i believe The Thin red line will have lots of them..
Do the other Criterion releases have only the hearing impaired subtitles?
- Gregor Samsa
- Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:41 am
Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
A reviewer who got an early copy goes into some detail about the extra features:
Criterion also provides brand-new audio commentary by John Toll, production designer Jack Fisk, and producer Grant Hill. Obviously, Malick's input would have been great, but we know the deal here. This is one quirk I wish Malick would get over. It seems that directors that have nothing to say, basically taking on a work for hire, will spout all kinds of banalities in their commentaries, but another like Malick (or Kubrick) will stay quiet. Though Fisk, Toll and Hill's banter is informative enough, some depth could have been given with guidelines pertaining to Malick’s vision, or of what he was trying to achieve, as well as more information about the superlative cinematography. A great idea would have been a separate commentary track with a film scholar or proffesor fo philosophy, not to try and tell us what the film is about, but recognizing archetypal imagery and maybe shedding light on it based on what we know of Malick's readings. Grant Hill, of course, sheds no light on his legendary spats with Malick when he could not figure out what the director was doing with his time, the film and the erratic habits he kept (like refusing to watch dailies) In short, I was really looking forward to the commentary and found most of the information provided to be pretty generic for a film label that thrives on cinema history. Most of this information has already been given in past interviews.
A separate feature hosts interviews with actors Kirk Acevedo, Jim Caviezel, Thomas Jane, Elias Koteas, Dash Mihok, and Sean Penn. These are drawn in part, from past interviews given for the documentary Rosy-Fingered Dawn: A Film on Terrence Malick. Though this documentary is little seen (commonly available on the Internet for those who want/need to find it), it does give a fresh perspective on all of Malick’s films to date (it came out before The New World). This advantage, of course, is that the interviews are closer to the actual filming of The Thin Red Line, and not remembered in happenstance. Others are new, and actors like Thomas Jane and Kirk Acevedo give new information on Malick’s directing style and how they were cast. There are glaring omissions here. John Dee Smith’s experience was unique in that Malick had attached himself to him for the duration of the filming as well as the post-production process. Malick intimated his past as a shared experience with Smith’s own southern upbringing. Both had troubled pasts, so there was an affinity for what Smith had to offer despite his inexperience as an actor that Malick uniquely tapped.
Another feature is a new interview with film composer Hans Zimmer. His past with Malick is checkered with stories of legendary spats with the demanding director. Malick also had a musical ear with a quirky sense of how he wanted certain keys to be employed to bring out disparate elements to the film. Zimmer, like composers before and after him seem to be affronted by Malick’s intrusion into their own world, yet, admittedly, he did bring out the best in their work. Zimmer does not address all the music he didn’t use, a veritable bug in the ear of thousands of fans of the released soundtrack that yearn to hear more (to the degree that they have bootlegged the music lifted from the film by separating it from each of its channels in the 5.1 mix). It is a serious shame that most of this is sitting in Zimmer or Fox’s vault, unused and ignored. Also, it would have been enlightening to hear about some of the other musicians used in the film under Zimmer's Media Ventures productions. Composer Francesco Lupica's Cosmic Beam was an important element to Malick, and it is mentioned twice by the commentary and by editor Saar Klein, but some footage of Lupica performing on it would have brought a whole lot to the table in understanding what a "cosmic beam" is and how it was used in the film. Instead, Zimmer continues to this date to use samples of what Lupica performed and Media Ventures recorded (and they even baked some of Lupica's tapes, notably the track "Sit Back and Relax" included on the official soundtrack, cut down from its fourteen+ minute version to just under three) without compensating Lupica or giving him recognition. But that's for another post . . . rest assured, Lupica is preparing to release his music independently, which means all of the music composed and used for Malick's last three finished films.
To me the most important and interesting feature are new interviews with editors Billy Weber, Leslie Jones, and Saar Klein. These three, so to speak, along with a team of assistants, went through hell to constantly come up with various assemblages of the film to suit Malick’s indecisions and experimental approach to film. I only wish they had also done a commentary, as it would have added a whole lot to this release. Editing a Malick film is an experience that, as Weber states at one point, if you had been through it at all, any other film by any other director will be easy by comparison. Saar Klein is one of the fresh voices, and his insight into Malick’s vision and how he strived to accommodate it is remarkable.There was a whole lot that could have been added here, and to this point, it means it will be brought out in depth in my book. There is a story here to tell . . .
Criterion also added a new interview with writer Kaylie Jones, the daughter of The Thin Red Line’s author, James Jones. Though she does delve into her father’s experiences with the war, which is interesting to a degree, she barely mentions Terrence Malick. Malick had been paid by some private investors to work on a screenplay of The Thin Red Line, and lived in Paris for many years staying in close contact with Jones’s widow, Gloria Jones. She does not share any of this, and for that we are at a loss. The writing of this screenplay and its metamorphosis through Malick’s rebel vision is vital to the history of American cinema.
A brand new interview with casting director Dianne Crittenden brings with it some archival footage of various actors auditioning for roles in the film (Crispin Glover!). She is insightful enough, commenting on what Malick wanted in his acting talent and how she went about doing it. It is good for watching once or twice.
Criterion also included fourteen minutes of outtakes, all of which were chosen by Malick. The general tenor of the clips are one with Rourke and Caviezel, one with Matt Doran in a violent encounter with a Japanese soldier, a drunken Mazzi ranting about Lt. Band, another where he and some company members go to confront a drunken Band. There is an outtake between Clooney and Ben Chaplin discussing Bell’s divorce options after he receives his “Dear John” letter. John C. Reilly gets to rant a bit to Caviezel. I think the two best are Coombs and Rourke’s sympathetic sniper being led through the brush by a Melanesian scout. I really wish that one made the final cut, Rourke brings to his performance what he similarly did with Sean Penn’s The Pledge.
The remainder of the features are a few minutes of World War II newsreels from Guadalcanal and the Solomon Islands and a batch of the Melanesian chants The original theatrical trailer is also included, but why not include the teaser that is still available on the film’s official web site from Fox? There is also a booklet featuring an essay by film critic David Sterritt, but I have not received that yet.
In the end, if I had to criticize, I wish there would have been more material included that would have answered our questions about the longer cuts, more outtakes, and they also could have included The Making of The Thin Red Line documentary shown on HBO, or, accessed all of that footage shot, Malick’s skittish dislike of appearing on film notwithstanding. A documentary much like they included with The New World would have been a fantastic addition to Criterion's disc.
Most importantly, the film looks phenomenal, it finally has room to breathe and breathe it does. I will add more to the look and sound of this film once I receive the Blu-Ray version.
- tojoed
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
They do, but they don't mention audio effects, I don't think, unless I'm so used to them I that I don't notice.Costa wrote: Being a foreigner I'd like to read the subtitles to understand better, but if it has only the hearing impaired option, it's a bit annoying for me to read every audio effect. And i believe The Thin red line will have lots of them..
Do the other Criterion releases have only the hearing impaired subtitles?
- eerik
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Re: 536 The Thin Red Line
My God those stills look great.
- kaujot
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